5 ms·

Honestly a presidential pardon is the only hope at this point. He's donated to democrats so there is precedent[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

Honestly a presidential pardon is the only hope at this point. He's donated to democrats so there is precedent[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

AlotOfReading 3y ago
Pardons are up to the individual president and Biden is notoriously stingy with them. He's only granted 6 out of thousands of petitions, mostly for drug charges. For context, Trump granted 237, many for securities fraud and related crimes. Obama granted 212 pardons for all sorts of things, but generally preferred commutations (>1700).
- paulpauper 3y ago
  pardons tend to be issued in bulk on leaving office
- xienze 3y ago
  Presidents usually wait until the very end of their final term before _really_ issuing pardons (so questions about the really eyebrow-raising ones, and every president has at least a few, don’t dog them for the rest of their time in office). I would bet big money Biden issues just as many as Trump, Obama, Bush et al once it’s all said and done.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    Every President? or most?
- mulmen 3y ago
  Can we compare a sitting president to former presidents? I feel like pardons are something you do on the way out the door.
- prepend 3y ago
  I think presidents typically grant pardons right before they leave office. So you can’t look at Biden stats until he’s out of office. If you look at Trump [0] he granted 6 pardons his first full year year in 2017 and 116 in 2021. Similarly, Obama granted 0 in 2010 and 142 in 2017. Bush had 0 in 2002 and 32 in 2009 (although his highest year was 44 in 2008). So Biden is not stingier than Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, First Bush, and Reagan from similar points in their career. [0] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics
- busterarm 3y ago
  [flagged]
- busterarm 3y ago
  > Pardons are up to the individual president and Biden is notoriously stingy with them. He's only granted 6 out of thousands of petitions, mostly for drug charges. For context, Trump granted 237, many for securities fraud and related crimes. Obama granted 212 pardons for all sorts of things, but generally preferred commutations (>1700). Super disingenuous framing here. Compared to modern presidents Trump's grants of clemency still remain distinctly low by comparison (only both Bushes went lower). Also the majority were not people convicted of "securities fraud and related crimes". You can see the detailed list over at wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executi... You can also see the list of presidents use of executive clemency here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_gra... You're drawing a narrow window around a few key facts that paints the opposite picture from the complete truth.
  - AlotOfReading 3y ago
    I was really trying to avoid a political debacle here by making an attemptedly neutral comparisons between Biden and both Obama and Trump. You're right though, I was referencing the relevant OPA pages for each of the recent presidents ([1], [2], [3], [4]). As the wiki page you've linked notes: "however, Trump frequently bypassed the OPA, and the majority of his executive clemency grants were made to well-connected convicts who did not file a petition with the OPA or meet the OPA's requirements. [...] Of the pardons and commutations that Trump did grant, the vast majority were to persons to whom Trump had a personal or political connection, or persons for whom executive clemency served a political goal." And yeah, that kind of bears out the point that SBF could probably find better places to put his money. But just for fun I went through the OPA lists semi-manually: Biden hasn't pardoned much of anyone. Trump pardoned 5 people who are specifically described as having been convicted for securities-related matters, namely Chris Collins, Andrew Worden, Drew Brownstein, Greg Reyes, and Michael Milken to top it off. That's not including the other people (e.g. Paul Erikson) who were involved with related financial crimes, but whose descriptions don't specifically call out securities convictions, as well as others that weren't pardoned through the OPA like Shapiro and Stitsky. Given how rarely these sorts of crimes are convicted, I think that's appropriately described as "many". Obama pardoned two people for securities issues, Jimmy Mattison and Scoey Morris, but as both were convicted of counterfeiting (a vastly different kind of crime than SBF) I think we can ignore them. Robert Hobbs and Brian Sledz probably count here. I'm unable to find details about Robert Schindler to know for him. Bush Junior pardoned Richard Miller, plus a couple of embezzlers and counterfeiters. I might have missed some. Do you mind double-checking? [1] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-joseph-biden-2021-present https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-jos... [2] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-donald-j-trump-2017-2021 https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-don... [3] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-barack-h-obama-2009-2017 https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-bar... [4] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-george-w-bush-2001-2009 https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-geo...
- aaronbrethorst 3y ago
  many for securities fraud and related crimes And perhaps some for money, if this suit is to be believed. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/giuliani-accused-offering-sell-trump-pardons-2-million-new-lawsuit-rcna84569 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/giuliani-accu...
paulpauper 3y ago
I doubt he will get a pardon. too much bad press
aaronbrethorst 3y ago
He donated in roughly equal measure to Democrats and Republicans. But those donations were hidden, he claimed: “Despite Citizens United being literally the highest-profile Supreme Court case of the decade and the thing everyone talks about with campaign finance, for some reason, in practice, no one can possibly fathom the idea that someone actually gave dark. All my Republican donations were dark.” The reason was cynical, if realistic: “Reporters freak the fuck out if you donate to a Republican,” he told Fong. “They’re all secretly liberal, and I didn’t want to have that fight, so I made all the Republican ones dark.” https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/sam-bankman-fried-donations-democrat-republican/672368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/sam-bankma...
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  Ok but the Republican ones aren't going to help him get a pardon from Biden.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- philwelch 3y ago
  The only source for that is SBF himself, and he’s not exactly reliable.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Honestly a presidential pardon is the only hope at this point. He's donated to democrats so there is precedent[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

AlotOfReading 3y ago

Pardons are up to the individual president and Biden is notoriously stingy with them. He's only granted 6 out of thousands of petitions, mostly for drug charges. For context, Trump granted 237, many for securities fraud and related crimes. Obama granted 212 pardons for all sorts of things, but generally preferred commutations (>1700).

paulpauper 3y ago
pardons tend to be issued in bulk on leaving office
xienze 3y ago
Presidents usually wait until the very end of their final term before _really_ issuing pardons (so questions about the really eyebrow-raising ones, and every president has at least a few, don’t dog them for the rest of their time in office). I would bet big money Biden issues just as many as Trump, Obama, Bush et al once it’s all said and done.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Every President? or most?
mulmen 3y ago
Can we compare a sitting president to former presidents? I feel like pardons are something you do on the way out the door.
prepend 3y ago
I think presidents typically grant pardons right before they leave office. So you can’t look at Biden stats until he’s out of office. If you look at Trump [0] he granted 6 pardons his first full year year in 2017 and 116 in 2021. Similarly, Obama granted 0 in 2010 and 142 in 2017. Bush had 0 in 2002 and 32 in 2009 (although his highest year was 44 in 2008). So Biden is not stingier than Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, First Bush, and Reagan from similar points in their career. [0] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics
busterarm 3y ago
[flagged]
busterarm 3y ago
> Pardons are up to the individual president and Biden is notoriously stingy with them. He's only granted 6 out of thousands of petitions, mostly for drug charges. For context, Trump granted 237, many for securities fraud and related crimes. Obama granted 212 pardons for all sorts of things, but generally preferred commutations (>1700). Super disingenuous framing here. Compared to modern presidents Trump's grants of clemency still remain distinctly low by comparison (only both Bushes went lower). Also the majority were not people convicted of "securities fraud and related crimes". You can see the detailed list over at wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executi... You can also see the list of presidents use of executive clemency here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_gra... You're drawing a narrow window around a few key facts that paints the opposite picture from the complete truth.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  I was really trying to avoid a political debacle here by making an attemptedly neutral comparisons between Biden and both Obama and Trump. You're right though, I was referencing the relevant OPA pages for each of the recent presidents ([1], [2], [3], [4]). As the wiki page you've linked notes: "however, Trump frequently bypassed the OPA, and the majority of his executive clemency grants were made to well-connected convicts who did not file a petition with the OPA or meet the OPA's requirements. [...] Of the pardons and commutations that Trump did grant, the vast majority were to persons to whom Trump had a personal or political connection, or persons for whom executive clemency served a political goal." And yeah, that kind of bears out the point that SBF could probably find better places to put his money. But just for fun I went through the OPA lists semi-manually: Biden hasn't pardoned much of anyone. Trump pardoned 5 people who are specifically described as having been convicted for securities-related matters, namely Chris Collins, Andrew Worden, Drew Brownstein, Greg Reyes, and Michael Milken to top it off. That's not including the other people (e.g. Paul Erikson) who were involved with related financial crimes, but whose descriptions don't specifically call out securities convictions, as well as others that weren't pardoned through the OPA like Shapiro and Stitsky. Given how rarely these sorts of crimes are convicted, I think that's appropriately described as "many". Obama pardoned two people for securities issues, Jimmy Mattison and Scoey Morris, but as both were convicted of counterfeiting (a vastly different kind of crime than SBF) I think we can ignore them. Robert Hobbs and Brian Sledz probably count here. I'm unable to find details about Robert Schindler to know for him. Bush Junior pardoned Richard Miller, plus a couple of embezzlers and counterfeiters. I might have missed some. Do you mind double-checking? [1] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-joseph-biden-2021-present https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-jos... [2] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-donald-j-trump-2017-2021 https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-don... [3] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-barack-h-obama-2009-2017 https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-bar... [4] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-george-w-bush-2001-2009 https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-geo...
aaronbrethorst 3y ago
many for securities fraud and related crimes And perhaps some for money, if this suit is to be believed. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/giuliani-accused-offering-sell-trump-pardons-2-million-new-lawsuit-rcna84569 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/giuliani-accu...

paulpauper 3y ago

I doubt he will get a pardon. too much bad press

aaronbrethorst 3y ago

He donated in roughly equal measure to Democrats and Republicans. But those donations were hidden, he claimed: “Despite Citizens United being literally the highest-profile Supreme Court case of the decade and the thing everyone talks about with campaign finance, for some reason, in practice, no one can possibly fathom the idea that someone actually gave dark. All my Republican donations were dark.” The reason was cynical, if realistic: “Reporters freak the fuck out if you donate to a Republican,” he told Fong. “They’re all secretly liberal, and I didn’t want to have that fight, so I made all the Republican ones dark.” https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/sam-bankman-fried-donations-democrat-republican/672368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/sam-bankma...

sebzim4500 3y ago
Ok but the Republican ones aren't going to help him get a pardon from Biden.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
philwelch 3y ago
The only source for that is SBF himself, and he’s not exactly reliable.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]