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Illegal trade in AI child sex abuse images exposed

lifeisstillgood 3y ago
How does a civilisation get to this stage. How can we glimpse creation of alien intelligence and go ... you what this would be good for. I guess I should have allocated more of my dice rolls on cynicism.
LinuxBender 3y ago
Is this realistic enough yet that it could deprecate careers held by the likes of Ghislaine Maxwell? Could intelligence agencies now target someone and select a child in their proximity or family circle, click a button and blackmail/destroy that person? What details would AI always get wrong?
- soligern 3y ago
  Of course it’s good enough. Have you seen the stuff Midjourney can generate?
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    It's realistic in the sense they look human but could it be realistic in enough detail that if a child was sitting at the desk of an investigator and they were watching the evidence, would they be convinced it is the child sitting at their desk and the perp they just locked up?
    - soligern 3y ago
      I tried reading this a few times but it doesn’t make sense.
      - LinuxBender 3y ago
        You are a detective. There is a purported victim in front of you IRL. Can you verify said victim is the person in the picture? The decision you make may tear apart a family and destroy a persons life.
        soligern 3y ago
        Are you trying to say an AI could generate a likeness of a real child? I’m sure it’s possible to get close especially since it generates images of celebrities very well.
- secfirstmd 3y ago
  You could do that with Photoshop already. Blackmail as an intelligence recruitment technique, especially with something so fake, is really very limited in it's utility.
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    Oh these are just pictures and not also videos? I guess that is indeed old hat. Maybe this one at least gets birth marks right by learning from Facebook and Instagram swimming photos.
- tacocataco 3y ago
  With the resources of a nation state, why not just put real child porn on a device or two and call the local authorities?
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    I think using the real people involved has a greater effect in destroying them and any group they are associated with. Imagine for example someone made realistic content of a politician and their grand-children and that content is "leaked", regardless of legal outcome they would be immediately and permanently destroyed. Everyone would distance themselves from them and anyone they worked with. But you could be right. I could be over-thinking this.
KMnO4 3y ago
I definitely don’t support child pornography, but the quote from the article: > He warned that a paedophile could, "move along that scale of offending from thought, to synthetic, to actually the abuse of a live child". Sounds a lot like the argument that violent video games are responsible for real life shootings.
- throwaway20s 3y ago
  [flagged]
- sterlind 3y ago
  is there any evidence for or against this? re: CP, not video games. I'd search the literature myself, but searching anything about it is too sketchy for me.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    > is there any evidence for or against this? re: CP, not video games. I don't think you're going to find much. From what I hear, admitting things like that to therapists or anybody else with an interest in collecting such data either invokes mandatory reporting obligations or puts you on some sort of list.
    - sterlind 3y ago
      I was assuming there'd be a study of convicted pedophiles and recidivism rates or something. Like, the scientists would study the people who are already on some list.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    Generally it’s observed that people who possess CP are pedophiles at a greater rate than the gen pop, so presumably, A can lead to B. That’s the entire argument. Child abuse has been going down globally at around the same time of the rise of CSAM so this argument isn’t only very likely wrong the truth extremely plausibly lies in the opposite direction, since a very obvious explanation for the prior phenomenon is simply B likes A more than most people. Frankly pornography turns people into docile chronic mastrubrators more than it turns them into rapacious monsters, the rise of porn in general has correlated to a decline in how much sex the average person has, and also a decline in sexual abuse generally. There’s a lot of problems with porn but this just isn’t one of them. This is one of the things where the facts don’t matter though. Caveat: I’m talking in general terms here, I’m sure porn is a trigger for some abuser out there.
version_five 3y ago
This is an attempted moral panic that while obviously disgusting should be an extremely low priority in a resource constrained law enforcement system. Unfortunately it gets play because it's a boogeyman that people who want to control and monitor online activity generally can make use of. Every cent that goes to "combatting" this is one that doesn't go to solving actual violent crime against kids, and in any event the whole enterprise is as futile as confiscating people's colored pencils. Set up a honeypot and refer people for investigation, fine. But let's not waste any additional resources or destroy additional freedoms for what is essentially a made up issue.
NoRelToEmber 3y ago
[flagged]
- aaron695 3y ago
  That escalated quickly You are not necessary wrong, we sacrifice people to build the stadiums for our gladiators. Tokyo Olympics killed at least three in a quick count. Heat stroke, self unalived, crane accident. But it's up there with we are just atoms there is no real morality. There are far better conversations to have. Access to porn reduces sex crimes, the less puritan we can be in the digital realm the less real people will get hurt is a better point to make.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- olliej 3y ago
  First off, the impact of rape is not just the time it takes to occur. In general, with significant support, it can result in years of trauma and PTSD, and unlike your claim that trauma does not necessarily ever go away. That’s with significant support. For many victims the results can be life destroying: suicide rates, drug abuse, crime, etc are all massively higher among victims of abuse, especially during childhood. So dismissively claiming the trauma of rape is over once it’s over is both wrong, and frankly sick. For the remainder of your point it is really important to note here that there is plenty of evidence showing that rape is significantly underreported in Japan. Similarly things that would be considered sexual assault in the US, UK, and NZ (the countries I have direct awareness of) are not treated as such in Japan. My partner spent a bunch of time living in Japan and said she just had to get used to being groped in public places, trains, elevators, etc as after her first complaints were ignored it became clear what she experience was not considered criminal. To my knowledge her experience was not unique.
  - NoRelToEmber 3y ago
    > So dismissively claiming the trauma of rape is over once it’s over is both wrong, and frankly sick. I really did not think a sarcasm tag was required, but here we are. > there is plenty of evidence showing that rape is significantly underreported in Japan. It would have to be underreported by a factor of 20x, compared to the UK, a country famous for turning a blind eye to rape gangs for years.
627467 3y ago
At some point someone will realize that - particularly in UK - the taboo, histeria and irrationally around CP is net negative for actually doing good.
- 627467 3y ago
  This is what happen when societies treat something as taboo. People who seek help can't have it: https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-don...
  - Zetobal 3y ago
    You forgot to switch accounts before answering yourself. Yikes especially on that topic.
throwaway20s 3y ago
[flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

How does a civilisation get to this stage. How can we glimpse creation of alien intelligence and go ... you what this would be good for. I guess I should have allocated more of my dice rolls on cynicism.

LinuxBender 3y ago

Is this realistic enough yet that it could deprecate careers held by the likes of Ghislaine Maxwell? Could intelligence agencies now target someone and select a child in their proximity or family circle, click a button and blackmail/destroy that person? What details would AI always get wrong?

soligern 3y ago
Of course it’s good enough. Have you seen the stuff Midjourney can generate?
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  It's realistic in the sense they look human but could it be realistic in enough detail that if a child was sitting at the desk of an investigator and they were watching the evidence, would they be convinced it is the child sitting at their desk and the perp they just locked up?
  - soligern 3y ago
    I tried reading this a few times but it doesn’t make sense.
    - LinuxBender 3y ago
      You are a detective. There is a purported victim in front of you IRL. Can you verify said victim is the person in the picture? The decision you make may tear apart a family and destroy a persons life.
      - soligern 3y ago
        Are you trying to say an AI could generate a likeness of a real child? I’m sure it’s possible to get close especially since it generates images of celebrities very well.
secfirstmd 3y ago
You could do that with Photoshop already. Blackmail as an intelligence recruitment technique, especially with something so fake, is really very limited in it's utility.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  Oh these are just pictures and not also videos? I guess that is indeed old hat. Maybe this one at least gets birth marks right by learning from Facebook and Instagram swimming photos.
tacocataco 3y ago
With the resources of a nation state, why not just put real child porn on a device or two and call the local authorities?
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  I think using the real people involved has a greater effect in destroying them and any group they are associated with. Imagine for example someone made realistic content of a politician and their grand-children and that content is "leaked", regardless of legal outcome they would be immediately and permanently destroyed. Everyone would distance themselves from them and anyone they worked with. But you could be right. I could be over-thinking this.

KMnO4 3y ago

I definitely don’t support child pornography, but the quote from the article: > He warned that a paedophile could, "move along that scale of offending from thought, to synthetic, to actually the abuse of a live child". Sounds a lot like the argument that violent video games are responsible for real life shootings.

throwaway20s 3y ago
[flagged]
sterlind 3y ago
is there any evidence for or against this? re: CP, not video games. I'd search the literature myself, but searching anything about it is too sketchy for me.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > is there any evidence for or against this? re: CP, not video games. I don't think you're going to find much. From what I hear, admitting things like that to therapists or anybody else with an interest in collecting such data either invokes mandatory reporting obligations or puts you on some sort of list.
  - sterlind 3y ago
    I was assuming there'd be a study of convicted pedophiles and recidivism rates or something. Like, the scientists would study the people who are already on some list.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  Generally it’s observed that people who possess CP are pedophiles at a greater rate than the gen pop, so presumably, A can lead to B. That’s the entire argument. Child abuse has been going down globally at around the same time of the rise of CSAM so this argument isn’t only very likely wrong the truth extremely plausibly lies in the opposite direction, since a very obvious explanation for the prior phenomenon is simply B likes A more than most people. Frankly pornography turns people into docile chronic mastrubrators more than it turns them into rapacious monsters, the rise of porn in general has correlated to a decline in how much sex the average person has, and also a decline in sexual abuse generally. There’s a lot of problems with porn but this just isn’t one of them. This is one of the things where the facts don’t matter though. Caveat: I’m talking in general terms here, I’m sure porn is a trigger for some abuser out there.

version_five 3y ago

This is an attempted moral panic that while obviously disgusting should be an extremely low priority in a resource constrained law enforcement system. Unfortunately it gets play because it's a boogeyman that people who want to control and monitor online activity generally can make use of. Every cent that goes to "combatting" this is one that doesn't go to solving actual violent crime against kids, and in any event the whole enterprise is as futile as confiscating people's colored pencils. Set up a honeypot and refer people for investigation, fine. But let's not waste any additional resources or destroy additional freedoms for what is essentially a made up issue.

NoRelToEmber 3y ago

[flagged]

aaron695 3y ago
That escalated quickly You are not necessary wrong, we sacrifice people to build the stadiums for our gladiators. Tokyo Olympics killed at least three in a quick count. Heat stroke, self unalived, crane accident. But it's up there with we are just atoms there is no real morality. There are far better conversations to have. Access to porn reduces sex crimes, the less puritan we can be in the digital realm the less real people will get hurt is a better point to make.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
olliej 3y ago
First off, the impact of rape is not just the time it takes to occur. In general, with significant support, it can result in years of trauma and PTSD, and unlike your claim that trauma does not necessarily ever go away. That’s with significant support. For many victims the results can be life destroying: suicide rates, drug abuse, crime, etc are all massively higher among victims of abuse, especially during childhood. So dismissively claiming the trauma of rape is over once it’s over is both wrong, and frankly sick. For the remainder of your point it is really important to note here that there is plenty of evidence showing that rape is significantly underreported in Japan. Similarly things that would be considered sexual assault in the US, UK, and NZ (the countries I have direct awareness of) are not treated as such in Japan. My partner spent a bunch of time living in Japan and said she just had to get used to being groped in public places, trains, elevators, etc as after her first complaints were ignored it became clear what she experience was not considered criminal. To my knowledge her experience was not unique.
- NoRelToEmber 3y ago
  > So dismissively claiming the trauma of rape is over once it’s over is both wrong, and frankly sick. I really did not think a sarcasm tag was required, but here we are. > there is plenty of evidence showing that rape is significantly underreported in Japan. It would have to be underreported by a factor of 20x, compared to the UK, a country famous for turning a blind eye to rape gangs for years.

627467 3y ago

At some point someone will realize that - particularly in UK - the taboo, histeria and irrationally around CP is net negative for actually doing good.

627467 3y ago
This is what happen when societies treat something as taboo. People who seek help can't have it: https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-don...
- Zetobal 3y ago
  You forgot to switch accounts before answering yourself. Yikes especially on that topic.

throwaway20s 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]