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You know making every single point by writing a disingenuous question like this is an obnoxious, annoying type of rhetoric, right? There is almost no circumsta

You know making every single point by writing a disingenuous question like this is an obnoxious, annoying type of rhetoric, right? There is almost no circumstance where “you know … right?” makes you worthwhile, pleasurable, or persuasive to talk to, particularly when it’s on a rhythm. It just makes you annoying, and usually confrontational and dismissive (as here), and it goes a long way to demonstrating how you feel about yourself compared to others (hint: not a good look if your goal is to persuade).

ianbutler 3y ago
I'm not trying to be pleasant or persuasive. These people are uninformed making sweeping generalizations based on nothing. I just can't actively insult them because of site rules. For the record, I've never microdosed, but I do have the courtesy to inform myself at a basic level before jumping into threads to shit on other people who do. You can't bring nothing to the table and expect other people to hold your hand gently coaching you through a basic google search. Fuck that.
- dsabanin 3y ago
  How does one become always aware in advance of having incomplete or misleading information on every subject that comes up in a conversation? I think some politeness and courtesy should be granted in those situations. Especially if you allow for the fact that it is you who could be having incomplete or biased information as well?
  - ianbutler 3y ago
    This isn't a conversation though, this is a forum. You (the general you) have the ability to google and fully prepare statements with however much time you want to. You can even set a default time limit in the settings on your user profile on HN to give you time before a comment is visible to check yourself and rework a comment if you want. I use it on pretty much every comment. On a forum I would expect someone participating in a thread making an assertive comment to do a few seconds of due diligence. They don't have to have perfect information, or even be correct after they do search, but its pretty obvious when you just come in with 0 information at all. Normally that doesn't even bother me, but when an uninformed comment is used to belittle people or take an undeserved moral position, then yeah, I get pretty pissed.
jrflowers 3y ago
>You know making every single point by writing a disingenuous question like this is an obnoxious, annoying type of rhetoric, right? I’m confused about your usage of the “You know… right?” pattern here. If you’re strongly of the opinion that it is an objectively bad way of communicating, surely you could have expressed that another way. The pattern obviously doesn’t bother the person you are responding to, so was that just the best way to get your point across?
- fjeosnsheiwnw 3y ago
  I just couldn’t resist the music of a rhythm. That, plus when someone’s being conversationally grouchy, returning the grouchiness to illustrate how grouchy it is followed by “here’s how not to be as grouchy and communicate with me/us more effectively” is simply a good tactic to make this point without escalating, I’ve found. When people get their grouchiness back that usually prods them to be angry, which (a) gives you an opportunity to immediately fix it with a better way, demonstrating good faith and avoiding an escalation and (b) it shows more self-aware people how others take their exact behaviors by introducing it in them. Note I’m using soft language to get across that I don’t think anybody was in bad faith here, you’re just asking me to explain in great detail.
  - ianbutler 3y ago
    For what its worth your point was taken, but I was intentionally being a dick. I know how I sounded but this entire post is filled with people moralizing without having any understanding of what they're talking about, and I, without any ambiguity, hate people like that. Like hate in the actual sense of the word and not a hyperbolic dramatization of a milder emotion like annoyance. My intent wasn't to persuade or educate, but perhaps I should be better at not taking the bait and just not commenting.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    > I just couldn’t resist the music of a rhythm. So you found the rhetorical aesthetic of the “You know… right?” pattern to be satisfying and useful in this conversation! >…a good tactic to make this point without escalating, I’ve found. That makes sense I suppose, but I think we can agree that your next sentence: > There is almost no circumstance where “you know … right?” makes you worthwhile, pleasurable, or persuasive to talk to Was very much an escalation. It looks like you would’ve been more effective if you’d stuck with your explicitly favored strategy of using the “You know… right?” pattern. You know you’ve made a compelling argument in favor of speaking in this manner, right?

ianbutler 3y ago

I'm not trying to be pleasant or persuasive. These people are uninformed making sweeping generalizations based on nothing. I just can't actively insult them because of site rules. For the record, I've never microdosed, but I do have the courtesy to inform myself at a basic level before jumping into threads to shit on other people who do. You can't bring nothing to the table and expect other people to hold your hand gently coaching you through a basic google search. Fuck that.

dsabanin 3y ago
How does one become always aware in advance of having incomplete or misleading information on every subject that comes up in a conversation? I think some politeness and courtesy should be granted in those situations. Especially if you allow for the fact that it is you who could be having incomplete or biased information as well?
- ianbutler 3y ago
  This isn't a conversation though, this is a forum. You (the general you) have the ability to google and fully prepare statements with however much time you want to. You can even set a default time limit in the settings on your user profile on HN to give you time before a comment is visible to check yourself and rework a comment if you want. I use it on pretty much every comment. On a forum I would expect someone participating in a thread making an assertive comment to do a few seconds of due diligence. They don't have to have perfect information, or even be correct after they do search, but its pretty obvious when you just come in with 0 information at all. Normally that doesn't even bother me, but when an uninformed comment is used to belittle people or take an undeserved moral position, then yeah, I get pretty pissed.

jrflowers 3y ago

>You know making every single point by writing a disingenuous question like this is an obnoxious, annoying type of rhetoric, right? I’m confused about your usage of the “You know… right?” pattern here. If you’re strongly of the opinion that it is an objectively bad way of communicating, surely you could have expressed that another way. The pattern obviously doesn’t bother the person you are responding to, so was that just the best way to get your point across?

fjeosnsheiwnw 3y ago
I just couldn’t resist the music of a rhythm. That, plus when someone’s being conversationally grouchy, returning the grouchiness to illustrate how grouchy it is followed by “here’s how not to be as grouchy and communicate with me/us more effectively” is simply a good tactic to make this point without escalating, I’ve found. When people get their grouchiness back that usually prods them to be angry, which (a) gives you an opportunity to immediately fix it with a better way, demonstrating good faith and avoiding an escalation and (b) it shows more self-aware people how others take their exact behaviors by introducing it in them. Note I’m using soft language to get across that I don’t think anybody was in bad faith here, you’re just asking me to explain in great detail.
- ianbutler 3y ago
  For what its worth your point was taken, but I was intentionally being a dick. I know how I sounded but this entire post is filled with people moralizing without having any understanding of what they're talking about, and I, without any ambiguity, hate people like that. Like hate in the actual sense of the word and not a hyperbolic dramatization of a milder emotion like annoyance. My intent wasn't to persuade or educate, but perhaps I should be better at not taking the bait and just not commenting.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  > I just couldn’t resist the music of a rhythm. So you found the rhetorical aesthetic of the “You know… right?” pattern to be satisfying and useful in this conversation! >…a good tactic to make this point without escalating, I’ve found. That makes sense I suppose, but I think we can agree that your next sentence: > There is almost no circumstance where “you know … right?” makes you worthwhile, pleasurable, or persuasive to talk to Was very much an escalation. It looks like you would’ve been more effective if you’d stuck with your explicitly favored strategy of using the “You know… right?” pattern. You know you’ve made a compelling argument in favor of speaking in this manner, right?