5 ms·

I'm the creator of Mutagen, happy to answer any questions that I can about the project, acquisition, or anything else!

by xenoscopic 3y ago

mati365 3y ago
What's your salary?
- xenoscopic 3y ago
  Well, that's one of those things I won't answer, but Docker is actually really great about listing nominal salary ranges for their positions on their Docker Careers page [1] - I'd encourage anyone to check out the openings there! [1] https://www.docker.com/career-openings/ https://www.docker.com/career-openings/
- osigurdson 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - sporadicallyjoe 3y ago
    Oh no, they're curious about his salary. Who could think to ask such a heinous question?
    - osigurdson 3y ago
      OK, what is your salary?
      - operatingthetan 3y ago
        They didn't offer up an "ask me anything" did they?
        osigurdson 3y ago
        [flagged]
        operatingthetan 3y ago
        I think the norm you're suggesting goes against the original novelty of the "AMA." There is no act, and they're not the ones behaving poorly. Every AMA attracts odd questions, but it's even stranger to get mad about it.
        osigurdson 3y ago
        Ah the original novelty of the AMA, back in those quaint gatherings at the town circle. Naturally the subjects were allowed to ask the minister literally anything. They all had a good laugh and much was learned. I harken back to those rosary tinted times of old. Good jolly.
        operatingthetan 3y ago
        I'm sure you have something better to be doing.
    - klardotsh 3y ago
      It's pretty uncommon to post one's salary on a public forum like this one, let alone to answer a random outburst question in a thread about a company acquisition.
  - nektro 3y ago
    there's nothing wrong with this question. my two tech jobs ive earned $105k/year and $125k/year salary respectively
  - steve_adams_86 3y ago
    I think it's fine to ask. It wouldn't be fine to insist. If they want to answer, that's okay. If not, that's okay too.
kkirsche 3y ago
Do you believe given Docker’s history of poor strategy (e.g., monetizing late requiring changes that negatively impact reputation such as docker desktop and hub), communication (e.g., the short notice changes a couple of months ago around free groups resulting in backlash) and in some cases destruction of successful businesses (see other comments in this thread) that this will result in a positive result for end users? I hope you made bank while the ship continues to sink.
- xenoscopic 3y ago
  Mutagen's core users are primarily Docker users, and I honestly think they'll be much better served by the tighter integrations that we'll be able to offer now. If I didn't think that were the case, and I didn't think there were a net win (for Docker, Mutagen, and their users), then I wouldn't have joined.
  - kkirsche 3y ago
    Fair, I appreciate the answer. I guess I’ve just seen enough purchases where it’s just for the payday that I’m a bit cynical. Thanks again for taking the time to read and answer, wishing you the best
    - xenoscopic 3y ago
      Thanks! I totally get it — I think a lot of time with acquisitions in general there's also a lot of good faith intentions that never manifest for whatever practical reason(s), so I can totally understand why the cynicism arises. I appreciate the positive wishes and I will do my best to convert those into positive outcomes!
      - Affric 3y ago
        > there's also a lot of good faith intentions that never manifest for whatever practical reason(s) This is the risk blindness that exists in people that find success. No one will perceive risk correctly. They will either over or under estimate. Those there's a huge amount of survivorship bias and those who underestimate risk and get lucky will be those who experience the most outsized success. This isn't to say the cynical "I told you so"s are right, they're blind to the benefits. It's just that it's easy to say you can see the win-win. From the outside it's easy to see that the underlying benefit for Docker is reducing the power and input of other sources of influence in their technology, and that's a greater benefit to them than any benefit that this move could possibly provide to the users. But if anyone could make it work it's you.
debarshri 3y ago
Are you happy with the outcome?
- xenoscopic 3y ago
  I'm really happy with this outcome! I've been a Docker Captain for almost 3 years now, so being an employee at Docker was a very easy switch to flip (at least mentally). As I said in another comment, this really felt like the logical step given that almost all of Mutagen's users are Docker users, and I think this is the best possible outcome for the project too!
sneak 3y ago
You started an open source business making and publishing free software. How do you feel about going to work for a proprietary software vendor that ships lots of closed source software under restrictive licenses? Was it a change in your own views toward user freedom (and an abandonment of free software ideology) or a practical matter?
- xenoscopic 3y ago
  I'd point out that most of the foundational components of Docker's technology stack are FOSS (e.g. [0] [1]). Mutagen also has (and had, prior to acquisition) closed-source components and components licensed under non-OSI licenses (e.g. SSPL), so evaluate my response in that context (and also please note that these are my responses, and not representative of Docker's opinions/positions). Also, as mentioned in the acquisition FAQ [2], we don't have any plans to change the open-source licensing structure, and we're still open to contributions. It's a delicate balance to strike, and almost more delicate to discuss. At the end of the day, an open source business is still a business, and you have to make money to eat, shelter, and continue writing code. I can certainly appreciate that there are different approaches to balancing that with open-source (e.g. consulting rather than close-sourcing), but so long as you're setting natural (non-contrived) boundaries between open-source and proprietary, then I don't think you're doing anything wrong. In fact, several companies were embedding and making money from Mutagen before I was, but that never really bothered me — that was the freedom I was affording them as users. I have nothing but the utmost respect for user freedom and I've always strived to offer that with Mutagen (e.g. allowing people to disable components that might not fit the OSI definition of FOSS). I also have nothing but the utmost respect for the authors of open-source software; Mutagen stands on the shoulders of many different dependencies and I've always strived to ensure that we're acknowledging those in a manner that is compliant with their licensing requirements (or going above and beyond that). In the end, it's a tough but fair question. I don't think my views have changed and I don't think there's any real incompatibility. It's a balance I'll necessarily continue to assess on a daily basis, both at Docker and in any other FOSS I write. [0] https://github.com/docker https://github.com/docker [1] https://github.com/moby https://github.com/moby [2] https://www.docker.com/blog/mutagen-acquisition/#mutagen-faq https://www.docker.com/blog/mutagen-acquisition/#mutagen-faq

I'm the creator of Mutagen, happy to answer any questions that I can about the project, acquisition, or anything else!

mati365 3y ago

What's your salary?

xenoscopic 3y ago
Well, that's one of those things I won't answer, but Docker is actually really great about listing nominal salary ranges for their positions on their Docker Careers page [1] - I'd encourage anyone to check out the openings there! [1] https://www.docker.com/career-openings/ https://www.docker.com/career-openings/
osigurdson 3y ago
[flagged]
- sporadicallyjoe 3y ago
  Oh no, they're curious about his salary. Who could think to ask such a heinous question?
  - osigurdson 3y ago
    OK, what is your salary?
    - operatingthetan 3y ago
      They didn't offer up an "ask me anything" did they?
      - osigurdson 3y ago
        [flagged]
        operatingthetan 3y ago
        I think the norm you're suggesting goes against the original novelty of the "AMA." There is no act, and they're not the ones behaving poorly. Every AMA attracts odd questions, but it's even stranger to get mad about it.
        osigurdson 3y ago
        Ah the original novelty of the AMA, back in those quaint gatherings at the town circle. Naturally the subjects were allowed to ask the minister literally anything. They all had a good laugh and much was learned. I harken back to those rosary tinted times of old. Good jolly.
        operatingthetan 3y ago
        I'm sure you have something better to be doing.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    It's pretty uncommon to post one's salary on a public forum like this one, let alone to answer a random outburst question in a thread about a company acquisition.
- nektro 3y ago
  there's nothing wrong with this question. my two tech jobs ive earned $105k/year and $125k/year salary respectively
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  I think it's fine to ask. It wouldn't be fine to insist. If they want to answer, that's okay. If not, that's okay too.

kkirsche 3y ago

Do you believe given Docker’s history of poor strategy (e.g., monetizing late requiring changes that negatively impact reputation such as docker desktop and hub), communication (e.g., the short notice changes a couple of months ago around free groups resulting in backlash) and in some cases destruction of successful businesses (see other comments in this thread) that this will result in a positive result for end users? I hope you made bank while the ship continues to sink.

xenoscopic 3y ago
Mutagen's core users are primarily Docker users, and I honestly think they'll be much better served by the tighter integrations that we'll be able to offer now. If I didn't think that were the case, and I didn't think there were a net win (for Docker, Mutagen, and their users), then I wouldn't have joined.
- kkirsche 3y ago
  Fair, I appreciate the answer. I guess I’ve just seen enough purchases where it’s just for the payday that I’m a bit cynical. Thanks again for taking the time to read and answer, wishing you the best
  - xenoscopic 3y ago
    Thanks! I totally get it — I think a lot of time with acquisitions in general there's also a lot of good faith intentions that never manifest for whatever practical reason(s), so I can totally understand why the cynicism arises. I appreciate the positive wishes and I will do my best to convert those into positive outcomes!
    - Affric 3y ago
      > there's also a lot of good faith intentions that never manifest for whatever practical reason(s) This is the risk blindness that exists in people that find success. No one will perceive risk correctly. They will either over or under estimate. Those there's a huge amount of survivorship bias and those who underestimate risk and get lucky will be those who experience the most outsized success. This isn't to say the cynical "I told you so"s are right, they're blind to the benefits. It's just that it's easy to say you can see the win-win. From the outside it's easy to see that the underlying benefit for Docker is reducing the power and input of other sources of influence in their technology, and that's a greater benefit to them than any benefit that this move could possibly provide to the users. But if anyone could make it work it's you.

debarshri 3y ago

Are you happy with the outcome?

xenoscopic 3y ago
I'm really happy with this outcome! I've been a Docker Captain for almost 3 years now, so being an employee at Docker was a very easy switch to flip (at least mentally). As I said in another comment, this really felt like the logical step given that almost all of Mutagen's users are Docker users, and I think this is the best possible outcome for the project too!

sneak 3y ago

You started an open source business making and publishing free software. How do you feel about going to work for a proprietary software vendor that ships lots of closed source software under restrictive licenses? Was it a change in your own views toward user freedom (and an abandonment of free software ideology) or a practical matter?

xenoscopic 3y ago
I'd point out that most of the foundational components of Docker's technology stack are FOSS (e.g. [0] [1]). Mutagen also has (and had, prior to acquisition) closed-source components and components licensed under non-OSI licenses (e.g. SSPL), so evaluate my response in that context (and also please note that these are my responses, and not representative of Docker's opinions/positions). Also, as mentioned in the acquisition FAQ [2], we don't have any plans to change the open-source licensing structure, and we're still open to contributions. It's a delicate balance to strike, and almost more delicate to discuss. At the end of the day, an open source business is still a business, and you have to make money to eat, shelter, and continue writing code. I can certainly appreciate that there are different approaches to balancing that with open-source (e.g. consulting rather than close-sourcing), but so long as you're setting natural (non-contrived) boundaries between open-source and proprietary, then I don't think you're doing anything wrong. In fact, several companies were embedding and making money from Mutagen before I was, but that never really bothered me — that was the freedom I was affording them as users. I have nothing but the utmost respect for user freedom and I've always strived to offer that with Mutagen (e.g. allowing people to disable components that might not fit the OSI definition of FOSS). I also have nothing but the utmost respect for the authors of open-source software; Mutagen stands on the shoulders of many different dependencies and I've always strived to ensure that we're acknowledging those in a manner that is compliant with their licensing requirements (or going above and beyond that). In the end, it's a tough but fair question. I don't think my views have changed and I don't think there's any real incompatibility. It's a balance I'll necessarily continue to assess on a daily basis, both at Docker and in any other FOSS I write. [0] https://github.com/docker https://github.com/docker [1] https://github.com/moby https://github.com/moby [2] https://www.docker.com/blog/mutagen-acquisition/#mutagen-faq https://www.docker.com/blog/mutagen-acquisition/#mutagen-faq