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>I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin Baffling conclusion. Even mild doses over prescription levels will lead to a dark, primal, ob

>I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin Baffling conclusion. Even mild doses over prescription levels will lead to a dark, primal, obsessive state.

ianbutler 3y ago
I'd say the same back at you. Most people using them to work, are using normal dosages. Normal doses induce a focus state. For the sake of argument, hypothetically, if I had a lot of experience here, I'd probably say no one I know using them to work more effectively takes them in a way that matches your response.
- operatingthetan 3y ago
  It's interesting how discussing the darker side of stimulants makes regular users of them uncomfortable. You assuming that your friends are being good kids and taking their correct prescribed doses is irrelevant to the factual effects of the drug at various doses. The other poster was generalizing the drug, carefully containing the discussion to a realm of comfort doesn't lead to very interesting discussion. The fact is, that amphetamines are hedonistic drugs, and you can clearly see descriptions of such behavior on any thread that discusses the negative state of west coast cities. Throw in SBF and his coworkers openly admitting to abusing adderall on twitter, it's not shocking abuse is common and leads to negative business outcomes.
  - ianbutler 3y ago
    I'm almost 30 bud. High achiever, high earner. I'm not uncomfortable, you're just not correct under normal circumstances. In fact I'd argue you're uncomfortable that people can use substances and be still be high achievers. Look I won't mince words, drugs aren't a magic bullet. They have downsides that need to be carefully considered, but many people are smart and capable of doing just that.
    - operatingthetan 3y ago
      >I'm almost 30 bud. High achiever, high earner. Ok? I looked you up and you're overselling yourself. I'd suggest you just not next time. >In fact I'd argue you're uncomfortable that people can use substances and be still be high achievers. Not at all, if people want to get on speed every day and make millions of dollars, good for them. >normal circumstances. Lots of people 'normally' get high on meth, I'm not sure what your point is. That doesn't change the fact that those drugs are hedonistic at various doses. You seem to be confused about what a generalization is, and are taking issue with one being made. Just say that next time instead of trying to police the boundaries of the conversation like this.
      - ianbutler 3y ago
        > Ok? You referred to me as a kid, which is just generally insulting. > Just say that next time instead of trying to police the boundaries of the conversation like this. Go read the first line of my first comment you responded to and not just the half sentence you cherry picked in your first reply. Here I grabbed it for you: "I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin, at least not for people who may be frequenters of this site. If anything the people using them are trying to escape less. I set the bounds I'm applying to their generalization in my first comment. Yes I disagree with the generalization as applied to the hacker news crowd, known to be industrious, innovative and business focused. You chose to reply about the generalization, I continued to reply guided by my initial comment and the bounds I set. I've been consistent in my argument and bounds, you chose to ignore it and reply to the generalization. I've been entirely consistent and I even said it upfront.
        operatingthetan 3y ago
        >You referred to me as a kid, which is just generally insulting. I did? "You assuming that your friends are being good kids" The effects of the drug don't change because of the "crowd" someone identifies with. This is just a veiled attempt to be like "I'm not like those other drug users!" You're all on the same speed. Not sure there is much else here.

>I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin Baffling conclusion. Even mild doses over prescription levels will lead to a dark, primal, obsessive state.

ianbutler 3y ago

I'd say the same back at you. Most people using them to work, are using normal dosages. Normal doses induce a focus state. For the sake of argument, hypothetically, if I had a lot of experience here, I'd probably say no one I know using them to work more effectively takes them in a way that matches your response.

operatingthetan 3y ago
It's interesting how discussing the darker side of stimulants makes regular users of them uncomfortable. You assuming that your friends are being good kids and taking their correct prescribed doses is irrelevant to the factual effects of the drug at various doses. The other poster was generalizing the drug, carefully containing the discussion to a realm of comfort doesn't lead to very interesting discussion. The fact is, that amphetamines are hedonistic drugs, and you can clearly see descriptions of such behavior on any thread that discusses the negative state of west coast cities. Throw in SBF and his coworkers openly admitting to abusing adderall on twitter, it's not shocking abuse is common and leads to negative business outcomes.
- ianbutler 3y ago
  I'm almost 30 bud. High achiever, high earner. I'm not uncomfortable, you're just not correct under normal circumstances. In fact I'd argue you're uncomfortable that people can use substances and be still be high achievers. Look I won't mince words, drugs aren't a magic bullet. They have downsides that need to be carefully considered, but many people are smart and capable of doing just that.
  - operatingthetan 3y ago
    >I'm almost 30 bud. High achiever, high earner. Ok? I looked you up and you're overselling yourself. I'd suggest you just not next time. >In fact I'd argue you're uncomfortable that people can use substances and be still be high achievers. Not at all, if people want to get on speed every day and make millions of dollars, good for them. >normal circumstances. Lots of people 'normally' get high on meth, I'm not sure what your point is. That doesn't change the fact that those drugs are hedonistic at various doses. You seem to be confused about what a generalization is, and are taking issue with one being made. Just say that next time instead of trying to police the boundaries of the conversation like this.
    - ianbutler 3y ago
      > Ok? You referred to me as a kid, which is just generally insulting. > Just say that next time instead of trying to police the boundaries of the conversation like this. Go read the first line of my first comment you responded to and not just the half sentence you cherry picked in your first reply. Here I grabbed it for you: "I don't think I'd put stimulants in the hedonistic escapism bin, at least not for people who may be frequenters of this site. If anything the people using them are trying to escape less. I set the bounds I'm applying to their generalization in my first comment. Yes I disagree with the generalization as applied to the hacker news crowd, known to be industrious, innovative and business focused. You chose to reply about the generalization, I continued to reply guided by my initial comment and the bounds I set. I've been consistent in my argument and bounds, you chose to ignore it and reply to the generalization. I've been entirely consistent and I even said it upfront.
      - operatingthetan 3y ago
        >You referred to me as a kid, which is just generally insulting. I did? "You assuming that your friends are being good kids" The effects of the drug don't change because of the "crowd" someone identifies with. This is just a veiled attempt to be like "I'm not like those other drug users!" You're all on the same speed. Not sure there is much else here.