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As a Spaniard my 2 cts: - The law had an expiration date for sure (don't know why). Maybe to avoid convenience nationality acquisitions? - "Why would the desc

As a Spaniard my 2 cts: - The law had an expiration date for sure (don't know why). Maybe to avoid convenience nationality acquisitions? - "Why would the descendants of Spanish Muslims not have the same opportunity if the objective is … to reconcile Spain with its past?" Because the Moriscos[1] rebelled against the Crown[2], while the Sephardic Jews were expelled because of their faith (the last Jews of being expelled of Europe). - "This hypocrisy led Cembrero and other commentators to speculate the law for Sephardim was proposed for economic reasons, or as an effort to appease Israel after Spain voted to recognize Palestine in the United Nations, or as a retaliation for the Catalan separatist movement." This is speculative from my point of view. There was an earlier law that allowed the Sephardim to get the Spanish Nationality but with the condition of residence created by a dictator in the first quarter of the XX century Miguel Primo de Rivera[3]. - All Hispanic-American citizens can acquire the Spanish Nationality after 2 years of residence. You can see that there are a ton of Spaniards of Hispanic-American origin in Madrid, for example. - Calling the PP (Partido Popular)[4] "a party with Francoist roots" is a bit of stretch. PP is the typical center-right party like the German CDU, Les Républicains in France or the Democrats in USA. However, Vox[5] would be to the right of the PP and that Party could be seen as an inheritor of Franco's dictatorship. - I'm sorry that there are racist judges, like this one, that asked tricky questions to void the nationality request of some people. He was investigated by the Judges Control Institution but they saw no wrongdoing in 2010 (a dog does not eat other dogs). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morisco [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_the_Alpujarras_(1568%E2%80%931571) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_the_Alpujarras_(1... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Primo_de_Rivera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Primo_de_Rivera [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_(Spain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_(Spain) [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_(political_party) Edit: sources and format

mistrial9 3y ago
[flagged]
- wageslave99 3y ago
  I'm sorry but... what's your point? Is there anything you want to know about the Jews in Spain?
- ebiester 3y ago
  I know we were taught about the pirate states of North Africa, especially with regards to the treaty of Tripoli in American history.
- KoftaBob 3y ago
  >I met living Portugese here who were taught that "Jews killed Jesus" .. for real "As the religions professed by the Israelites (Second Temple Judaism) and the Romans (Pagan) were different,[7] and since at the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate." "Pontius Pilate finally asks Jesus "What is truth?". This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [10] Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus, asking the crowd if they wanted Jesus freed. They demanded instead the release of Barabbas and called for Jesus' death. Fearing a revolt, Pilate relented." While Pontius Pilate technically was the one who carried out the killing, it was very clearly Jewish Sanhedrin elders and many Jewish people of the area who were the ones calling for Jesus' crucifixion. I get that "Jews called for Jesus death" can quickly jump to anti-Semitic stuff, but that doesn't mean we need to deny what actually happened.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      See Acts 4:27. Jesus' followers singled out Herod and Pontius Pilate, but blamed the Gentiles and the Jews for the death of Jesus. (And, in the next verse, state that this was all God's will and plan.) Blaming the Jews alone seems wrong. But so does blaming the Romans alone.
master_crab 3y ago
“Because the Moriscos[1] rebelled against the Crown[2], while the Sephardic Jews were expelled because of their faith (the last Jews of being expelled of Europe).” Wait? What? Every Muslim woman, child and man in Spain rebelled against the crown? Going to call bullshit on that. But let’s say for a moment you might even be passably correct? Why did they rebel? Was it because they were being violently subjugated by the crown? (Keep in mind that crown went on to do a lot more subjugating in the New World. The Spanish crown loved murdering people who weren’t Catholic.)
- wageslave99 3y ago
  No, I meant that they wanted a separate political entity (or at least Moriscos' leaders wanted that). As you can guess, they were assumed to be traitors and expelled of Spain. > But let’s say for a moment you might even be passably correct? Why did they rebel? Was it because they were being violently subjugated by the crown? They were subjects of the Crown, as the things worked that way then, if you rebel against the Crown you were killed. Obeying the Crown in the XVI century meant to follow the official religion. The Muslims did the same some centuries earlier so I can imagine that "forcing people to practice a religion" was a common practice during that era. > (Keep in mind that crown went on to do a lot more subjugating in the New World. The Spanish crown loved murdering people who weren’t Catholic.) Well, of course the Spanish Empire was subjugating its subjects the same way English or French were doing. That was a common practice during that time (not that I'm defending that). In the case of the Spanish Empire, they were lucky to find people that were slaved by the Mexica (common known as Aztecs by us) and they rely on their help to conquest what is now Mexico. You can guess the other parts of Hispanic-America suffered a similar fate. I don't get your point, you are using current culture and values to judge facts that happened 5 centuries ago. Of course they were evil and inhumane, what did you expect?
  - erenyeager 3y ago
    > The Muslims did the same some centuries earlier so I can imagine that "forcing people to practice a religion" was a common practice during that era. This is generally not true for Al-Andalus. In general Christians were not forced to convert to Islam under the initial Umayyad rule and by the later periods almost 80% of Al-Andalus’ Muslim population was estimated to be from converts from Christianity to Islam, called the Muladi. This was by and large voluntary. And the remaining Christians were given a protected Dhimmi status which preserved their religious practice and conducting their internal affairs via Christian courts. Castile also had an edict of tolerance that was revoked when they decided to expel the Moors and took a very extreme approach of convert or leave or die. It’s not equal at all, the Kingdom of Castile which later became Spain committed in what modern day we would term a genocide against Moriscos and Conversos. Some Moriscos fled to mountains or adopted cryptic ways of preserving their traditions and religious practice under the Spanish oppression centuries after the fall of the Emirate of Granada. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_and_cultural_exchange_in_al-Andalus#:~:text=Half%20of%20the%20Christians%20in,Arabized%20in%20terms%20of%20culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_and_cultural_exchange....

mistrial9 3y ago

[flagged]

wageslave99 3y ago
I'm sorry but... what's your point? Is there anything you want to know about the Jews in Spain?
ebiester 3y ago
I know we were taught about the pirate states of North Africa, especially with regards to the treaty of Tripoli in American history.
KoftaBob 3y ago
>I met living Portugese here who were taught that "Jews killed Jesus" .. for real "As the religions professed by the Israelites (Second Temple Judaism) and the Romans (Pagan) were different,[7] and since at the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate." "Pontius Pilate finally asks Jesus "What is truth?". This was said after learning that Jesus did not wish to claim any terrestrial kingdom. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [10] Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus, asking the crowd if they wanted Jesus freed. They demanded instead the release of Barabbas and called for Jesus' death. Fearing a revolt, Pilate relented." While Pontius Pilate technically was the one who carried out the killing, it was very clearly Jewish Sanhedrin elders and many Jewish people of the area who were the ones calling for Jesus' crucifixion. I get that "Jews called for Jesus death" can quickly jump to anti-Semitic stuff, but that doesn't mean we need to deny what actually happened.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    See Acts 4:27. Jesus' followers singled out Herod and Pontius Pilate, but blamed the Gentiles and the Jews for the death of Jesus. (And, in the next verse, state that this was all God's will and plan.) Blaming the Jews alone seems wrong. But so does blaming the Romans alone.

master_crab 3y ago

“Because the Moriscos[1] rebelled against the Crown[2], while the Sephardic Jews were expelled because of their faith (the last Jews of being expelled of Europe).” Wait? What? Every Muslim woman, child and man in Spain rebelled against the crown? Going to call bullshit on that. But let’s say for a moment you might even be passably correct? Why did they rebel? Was it because they were being violently subjugated by the crown? (Keep in mind that crown went on to do a lot more subjugating in the New World. The Spanish crown loved murdering people who weren’t Catholic.)

wageslave99 3y ago
No, I meant that they wanted a separate political entity (or at least Moriscos' leaders wanted that). As you can guess, they were assumed to be traitors and expelled of Spain. > But let’s say for a moment you might even be passably correct? Why did they rebel? Was it because they were being violently subjugated by the crown? They were subjects of the Crown, as the things worked that way then, if you rebel against the Crown you were killed. Obeying the Crown in the XVI century meant to follow the official religion. The Muslims did the same some centuries earlier so I can imagine that "forcing people to practice a religion" was a common practice during that era. > (Keep in mind that crown went on to do a lot more subjugating in the New World. The Spanish crown loved murdering people who weren’t Catholic.) Well, of course the Spanish Empire was subjugating its subjects the same way English or French were doing. That was a common practice during that time (not that I'm defending that). In the case of the Spanish Empire, they were lucky to find people that were slaved by the Mexica (common known as Aztecs by us) and they rely on their help to conquest what is now Mexico. You can guess the other parts of Hispanic-America suffered a similar fate. I don't get your point, you are using current culture and values to judge facts that happened 5 centuries ago. Of course they were evil and inhumane, what did you expect?
- erenyeager 3y ago
  > The Muslims did the same some centuries earlier so I can imagine that "forcing people to practice a religion" was a common practice during that era. This is generally not true for Al-Andalus. In general Christians were not forced to convert to Islam under the initial Umayyad rule and by the later periods almost 80% of Al-Andalus’ Muslim population was estimated to be from converts from Christianity to Islam, called the Muladi. This was by and large voluntary. And the remaining Christians were given a protected Dhimmi status which preserved their religious practice and conducting their internal affairs via Christian courts. Castile also had an edict of tolerance that was revoked when they decided to expel the Moors and took a very extreme approach of convert or leave or die. It’s not equal at all, the Kingdom of Castile which later became Spain committed in what modern day we would term a genocide against Moriscos and Conversos. Some Moriscos fled to mountains or adopted cryptic ways of preserving their traditions and religious practice under the Spanish oppression centuries after the fall of the Emirate of Granada. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_and_cultural_exchange_in_al-Andalus#:~:text=Half%20of%20the%20Christians%20in,Arabized%20in%20terms%20of%20culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_and_cultural_exchange....