5 ms·
Good, speech should be as free as possible.
by veave 3y ago
Good, speech should be as free as possible.
- Devasta 3y agoFB is implicated in facilitating genocide in Myanmar due to its failing to moderate speech on its platforms.
- veave 3y agoThat's not Facebook's fault. It also isn't the fault of those who post stuff. It's the fault of the ones who kill people.
- noduerme 3y agoInciting violence does make it partially the fault of those who post stuff. Moreover, they have no "right" to use a platform to spread incitement. Giving them use of a platform makes Facebook complicit. Also, how do you not know the people who post stuff are the same people who kill people?
- hgs3 3y ago> Giving them use of a platform makes Facebook complicit. I don't understand this perspective. Johannes Gutenberg, inventor of the printing press, shouldn't be responsible for what folks print. Neither should Sir Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the world wide web, be responsible for what people use the web for. Humans needs to accept personal reasonability and not blame their tools.
- Devasta 3y agoInventing the printer wouldn't make them responsible. Distributing things on their behalf would, as FB did.
- hgs3 3y agoThe world wide web is inherently a tool for distribution. Being upset at Facebook is nonsensical when distribution is the purpose of the web. Technology is an amplifier for human behavior. If some humans use technology for nefarious rather than constructive purposes, then that is a problem with those humans - not the technology.
- Devasta 3y agoQuestion for you: Does Don Black, the owner of Stormfront.com, have any responsibility over what is published there by people other than himself?
- hgs3 3y agoHumans should have the capacity to say something "hateful" but the integrity not to. If you find speech disagreeable then blame the parents, educators, and culture for failing to provide proper guidance. Censorship and tool blaming is lazy. The root cause must be addressed, not the symptoms.
- Devasta 3y agoIt won't have escaped anyone's notice you declined to answer the question.
- hgs3 3y agoI'm not familiar with Stormfront. I did some hasty research and it appears it's a bulletin board infamous for hateful speech. You, and the population at large, are free to either ignore it or sign up and drown out the hate with messages of peace and love. I do not believe a publisher is responsible for messages of hate anymore than they are for messages of love. Even if Don Black created Stormfront specifically to host hateful user content, this does not make him responsible because it's ultimately the individual who creates their account and posts their hate. If proper parenting, education, and culture were in place, Stormfront would have zero users signing up. To bring the point home: I do not believe Facebook should be responsible if users post inflammatory content. Humans have been waging war and spewing hate from the beginning. To imply that Facebook - an over the hill social network - is responsible is laughably idiotic. The individual must accept responsibility and the culture that produced them must do better.
- noduerme 3y agoGutenberg didn't decide what to mass print (or get ad dollars for printing it)
- bheadmaster 3y agoNobody is responsible for a murder except the person who did the killing. And it must be so, otherwise we will go down the thoughtcrime path.
- nulld3v 3y agoWhat if I hire a hitman? Is only the hitman responsible?
- bheadmaster 3y agoHiring a hitman is not that different from using a gun yourself, it's just that a gun is not a human and cannot be responsible. So yeah, you're both resposible. Hitman most likely more, but ordering a hit is also a murder.
- noduerme 3y agoBut if you just say to someone that they should kill someone, as long as money doesn't change hands, you have no share of responsibility?
- bheadmaster 3y agoYes.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Devasta 3y agoSo if a general orders an airstrike on a target, he has not gotten anyone killed?
- bheadmaster 3y agoYes, he has, because there is a top-down command hierarchy in the army, and soldiers get punished if they refuse orders. They are basically just tools of the general. But in case where one has killed by his own volition (not being under direct order), the motivation is irrelevant.
- TechBro8615 3y agoImplicated by whom? "Disinformation experts?"
- jstarfish 3y agoI feel for the victims, and have no love for Facebook, but come on. Facebook is supposed to retain specialists that can interpret and act on something said in niche languages on their platform, in bad faith? Failing to do so becomes facilitation of genocide? They can't just act on it without verification; that leads to abuse reports being filed in bad faith. We saw it with DMCA, we see it again with angry ex-Redditors. You lose control of your business when you let the customer run the till, but advocacy for letting lunatics run the asylum seems to be the expectation these days. Facebook is just a digital bathroom wall. I don't know what half the graffiti on most walls say, but failing to paint over it doesn't make the owner culpable for gang violence. The graffiti is illegal. It was illegally painted on his wall. If he can't deal with it right now, or ever, it doesn't make him an honorary member of MS-13. The extension of this is people moving to obfuscation and encryption. Must Facebook now hire an army of cryptographers/stenographers to crack every bespoke cipher and find every hidden message encoded on their platform? Facebook may have deep pockets, but these expectations don't scale for anybody else in the same position. They'd be better tooled than the NSA, and I don't think anybody actually wants that. It sucks, but at least attribute blame where it's deserved-- to the people posting and acting on threats.
- from 3y agoMyanmar has had multiple ongoing civil wars since 1947. Kachin conflict, various disputes in Shan State, Karen conflict, Rohingya conflict, etc. It's way more complicated than just Facebook. The ethnic tension was always there because the majority Bamar oppressed the minority groups. The fact that these regions have jade, gold and timber hasn't helped either. These lawsuits are nothing but another front in the "shake down tech companies" war.
- larvaetron 3y ago[flagged]
- tetromino_ 3y agoSounds good in theory, until you are on the receiving end of a mob which, thanks to unmoderated free speech + misunderstanding and exaggeration + pre-existing hatred of your kind of people and pre-existing violent temperament, have decided to bludgeon you to death.