5 ms·

Intel has already lost Apple. ARM has not been very successful on Windows yet, but Nuvia hased processors are supposed to be launched end of this year. If Nuvia

Intel has already lost Apple. ARM has not been very successful on Windows yet, but Nuvia hased processors are supposed to be launched end of this year. If Nuvia chip is anything close to M1 also then both Intel and AMD are going to have tough time.

f6v 3y ago
> If Nuvia chip is anything close to M1 also then both Intel and AMD are going to have tough time. Who’s going to write a “Rosetta for Windows” that works seamlessly though?
- kritr 3y ago
  Isn’t that already available on Windows?
  - f6v 3y ago
    From reading the reviews my impression was that it was too slow.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > Who’s going to write a “Rosetta for Windows” that works seamlessly though? Microsoft? https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x8...
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    They haven't shown any signs of doing a competent job on the $1,800 ARM Surface Pro 9. > My frustration with this computer wasn’t a workload thing. It didn’t start out fast and gradually slow down as I opened more things and started more processes. It was peppered with glitches and freezes from start to finish. I’d have only Slack open, and switching between channels would still take almost three seconds (yes, I timed it on my phone). Spotify, also with nothing in the background, would take 11 seconds to open, then be frozen for another four seconds before I could finally press play. When I typed in Chrome, I often saw significant lag, which led to all kinds of typos (because my words weren’t coming out until well after I’d written them). I’d try to watch YouTube videos, and the video would freeze while the audio continued. I’d use the Surface Pen to annotate a PDF, and my strokes would either be frustratingly late or not show up at all. I’d try to open Lightroom, and it would freeze multiple times and then crash. https://www.theverge.com/23421326/microsoft-surface-pro-9-arm-qualcomm-sq3-review https://www.theverge.com/23421326/microsoft-surface-pro-9-ar...
    - f6v 3y ago
      ARM SP felt sluggish even without running x86 software when I held it in the store.
- rektide 3y ago
  Number of cores sold is I think quickly tipping towards the data center. The data center doesn't need x86 compatibility. The other bulk of thr market is mobile, which is almost entirely arm already.
- notreallyauser 3y ago
  Microsoft would need to do their part in the OS, but Apple reportedly didn't do all of Rosetta in house. (IBM now owns the start-up reported to have done the core.)
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > Apple reportedly didn't do all of Rosetta in house You're talking about the 2011 version of Rosetta that allowed Intel Macs to run PPC software. >QuickTransit was a cross-platform virtualization program developed by Transitive Corporation. It allowed software compiled for one specific processor and operating system combination to be executed on a different processor and/or operating system architecture without source code or binary changes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit
tester756 3y ago
You think Apple wouldn't even partially go back?
- solardev 3y ago
  Why would they? Right now they have the best laptop and tablet chip, bar none, and total vertical integration. They've invested heavily in M1 and M2 and M3 is due out next year. What would an Intel chip offer, except uncertainty? On the compatibility side, Boot Camp is less useful when Windows on Arm does its own x86 emulation and works well enough in Parallels. On the graphics side they wrote their own DirectX 12 wrapper. If they can port some AI libs over, running them on 64 GB of shared CPU/GPU memory would be pretty amazing. Maybe in 10 years, if Intel generationally leapfrogs them again like with the PowerPC era. But short of that, what would they have to gain?
  - tester756 3y ago
    I meant building their ARM M3, M4, and so on CPUs
    - solardev 3y ago
      Like using Intel as a fab?
      - tester756 3y ago
        Yes, aren't they going into that business lately?
        solardev 3y ago
        Yes, I think so. Sorry I misunderstood you.
BearOso 3y ago
Intel has already lost its role as chip provider with Apple. As a fab, if it outperforms TSMC as the parent suggests, it could provide manufacturing for Apple's designs. Of course, we'll have to see if Intel keeps up after finally clearing its 10nm hurdle. The M series isn't as great as it seemed. It had an initial advantage of a smaller node, and benefits from everything being on-die. It's huge, so it relies more on the chip tech getting smaller than traditional CPU solutions.
- dragonelite 3y ago
  But how can they even find the people that are willing to work cheap and long enough to compete against TSMC in Taiwan? TSMC is having a lot of issues to scale up their Arizona operation.
  - soligern 3y ago
    You pay the right salaries and the people will come. Granted you’re not going to get cheap labor working borderline slavery hours like you can in Taiwan but maybe large scale automation has a role to play.
  - stefan_ 3y ago
    You are talking about the most automated industry in the world with productivity through the roof. Don't believe everything they tell you.

f6v 3y ago

> If Nuvia chip is anything close to M1 also then both Intel and AMD are going to have tough time. Who’s going to write a “Rosetta for Windows” that works seamlessly though?

kritr 3y ago
Isn’t that already available on Windows?
- f6v 3y ago
  From reading the reviews my impression was that it was too slow.
CharlesW 3y ago
> Who’s going to write a “Rosetta for Windows” that works seamlessly though? Microsoft? https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x8...
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  They haven't shown any signs of doing a competent job on the $1,800 ARM Surface Pro 9. > My frustration with this computer wasn’t a workload thing. It didn’t start out fast and gradually slow down as I opened more things and started more processes. It was peppered with glitches and freezes from start to finish. I’d have only Slack open, and switching between channels would still take almost three seconds (yes, I timed it on my phone). Spotify, also with nothing in the background, would take 11 seconds to open, then be frozen for another four seconds before I could finally press play. When I typed in Chrome, I often saw significant lag, which led to all kinds of typos (because my words weren’t coming out until well after I’d written them). I’d try to watch YouTube videos, and the video would freeze while the audio continued. I’d use the Surface Pen to annotate a PDF, and my strokes would either be frustratingly late or not show up at all. I’d try to open Lightroom, and it would freeze multiple times and then crash. https://www.theverge.com/23421326/microsoft-surface-pro-9-arm-qualcomm-sq3-review https://www.theverge.com/23421326/microsoft-surface-pro-9-ar...
  - f6v 3y ago
    ARM SP felt sluggish even without running x86 software when I held it in the store.
rektide 3y ago
Number of cores sold is I think quickly tipping towards the data center. The data center doesn't need x86 compatibility. The other bulk of thr market is mobile, which is almost entirely arm already.
notreallyauser 3y ago
Microsoft would need to do their part in the OS, but Apple reportedly didn't do all of Rosetta in house. (IBM now owns the start-up reported to have done the core.)
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > Apple reportedly didn't do all of Rosetta in house You're talking about the 2011 version of Rosetta that allowed Intel Macs to run PPC software. >QuickTransit was a cross-platform virtualization program developed by Transitive Corporation. It allowed software compiled for one specific processor and operating system combination to be executed on a different processor and/or operating system architecture without source code or binary changes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit

tester756 3y ago

You think Apple wouldn't even partially go back?

solardev 3y ago
Why would they? Right now they have the best laptop and tablet chip, bar none, and total vertical integration. They've invested heavily in M1 and M2 and M3 is due out next year. What would an Intel chip offer, except uncertainty? On the compatibility side, Boot Camp is less useful when Windows on Arm does its own x86 emulation and works well enough in Parallels. On the graphics side they wrote their own DirectX 12 wrapper. If they can port some AI libs over, running them on 64 GB of shared CPU/GPU memory would be pretty amazing. Maybe in 10 years, if Intel generationally leapfrogs them again like with the PowerPC era. But short of that, what would they have to gain?
- tester756 3y ago
  I meant building their ARM M3, M4, and so on CPUs
  - solardev 3y ago
    Like using Intel as a fab?
    - tester756 3y ago
      Yes, aren't they going into that business lately?
      - solardev 3y ago
        Yes, I think so. Sorry I misunderstood you.

BearOso 3y ago

Intel has already lost its role as chip provider with Apple. As a fab, if it outperforms TSMC as the parent suggests, it could provide manufacturing for Apple's designs. Of course, we'll have to see if Intel keeps up after finally clearing its 10nm hurdle. The M series isn't as great as it seemed. It had an initial advantage of a smaller node, and benefits from everything being on-die. It's huge, so it relies more on the chip tech getting smaller than traditional CPU solutions.

dragonelite 3y ago
But how can they even find the people that are willing to work cheap and long enough to compete against TSMC in Taiwan? TSMC is having a lot of issues to scale up their Arizona operation.
- soligern 3y ago
  You pay the right salaries and the people will come. Granted you’re not going to get cheap labor working borderline slavery hours like you can in Taiwan but maybe large scale automation has a role to play.
- stefan_ 3y ago
  You are talking about the most automated industry in the world with productivity through the roof. Don't believe everything they tell you.