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Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla cu

Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter. So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1] A stronger position in the market only amplifies itself. Beta was better in every way than VHS, but VHS had a lead in popularity, and network effects eventually resulted in the death of Beta. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-charging-standard-tesla/ https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-chargi...

brewdad 3y ago
How many of those CCS stations are actually up and running properly? I can't stand Musk and Tesla and haven't yet made the jump into EVs but I plan to soon and everything I've seen online suggests Telsa chargers just work while EA and other CCS brands are extremely hit and miss.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Other than new stations that just haven't come online, I've never once pulled up to a location and failed to charge at a decent rate. Similar experiences with most people I've talked to actually at the stations I'm charging at. I'm sure wherever these reviewers are doing their reviews, they're getting bad experiences. But personally I've never once had a problem. Maybe bad maintenance is more of a localized thing?
- SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
  I've done a long distance road trip, and the CCS stations have occasional failed chargers, but every single one was available to charge my car. Think of it this way: The Supercharger network has to be reliable, because there's only one station every ~100 miles or so. The CCS network can afford to be a bit less reliable because it's more redundant. And even then, the "less reliable" typically means that one out of four available chargers in a location is out of service, not that the location itself is unusable. And there are apps that lets you see the status of chargers at a location, so you can check in advance whether a particular location is working. If a location seems to be in poor repair, you can always plan around it.
rootusrootus 3y ago
> 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Sure, but in the smaller print on that diagram it mentions that there are twice as many superchargers. CCS stations are typically small, superchargers typically large.
- SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
  ...and? As long as there are chargers available at a particular station, why should I care how many are sitting unused? I've been by many Supercharger stations where there were no cars charging at all. Sometimes I see one or two, but the majority of the time most of the chargers are empty. The number of locations indicates the flexibility of the charging network. There are CCS chargers in places where Superchargers don't exist, meaning you have more places you can go with CCS than you can go with a Tesla. And that isn't a hypothetical. I've driven down to the Carlsbad Caverns with my family in the past, and I wanted to do it again with my electric car. For a long time, southwest New Mexico had NO fast charging stations for any brand of charger, but in the last year it's gained enough CCS chargers that I could comfortably drive back to the caverns without worrying about range. And there are still no Superchargers within a hundred miles. (Note I'd be coming from Colorado, so driving down from the north side of the state--you could probably make it TO Carlsbad from a west Texas Supercharger, and then make it back to the same Supercharger, but that would be many hours of driving out of my way.) Would I like to see more redundancy at every location? Sure. But to me it's more important that there are chargers available where I want to go than that there are a ton of redundant chargers at every location. Maybe if I lived in LA and wanted to be able to drive to SF I would have different priorities.
WorldMaker 3y ago
SAE (the Society of Automotive Engineers) just formally adopted NACS as preferred standard [1], so CCS1 may have indeed "lost". Conversion of existing CCS1 chargers was one of the things SAE supposedly considered in making the decision. NACS "speaks CCS software over Tesla-designed hardware" so it's mostly just a hardware change at one end of the cable. (Tesla made some smart decisions when they decided to standards track NACS.) [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775208/tesla-nacs-electric-car-charging-standard-sae-chargepoint https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775208/tesla-nacs-elect...
- SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
  We'll see what happens, I guess. As long as I can charge my car (Ioniq 5) moving forward, it doesn't really matter. CCS has higher speed charging than is available at Superchargers, at least for my car, though, so I hope the NACS standard has the ability to support the higher charging speed.

brewdad 3y ago

How many of those CCS stations are actually up and running properly? I can't stand Musk and Tesla and haven't yet made the jump into EVs but I plan to soon and everything I've seen online suggests Telsa chargers just work while EA and other CCS brands are extremely hit and miss.

vel0city 3y ago
Other than new stations that just haven't come online, I've never once pulled up to a location and failed to charge at a decent rate. Similar experiences with most people I've talked to actually at the stations I'm charging at. I'm sure wherever these reviewers are doing their reviews, they're getting bad experiences. But personally I've never once had a problem. Maybe bad maintenance is more of a localized thing?
SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
I've done a long distance road trip, and the CCS stations have occasional failed chargers, but every single one was available to charge my car. Think of it this way: The Supercharger network has to be reliable, because there's only one station every ~100 miles or so. The CCS network can afford to be a bit less reliable because it's more redundant. And even then, the "less reliable" typically means that one out of four available chargers in a location is out of service, not that the location itself is unusable. And there are apps that lets you see the status of chargers at a location, so you can check in advance whether a particular location is working. If a location seems to be in poor repair, you can always plan around it.

rootusrootus 3y ago

> 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Sure, but in the smaller print on that diagram it mentions that there are twice as many superchargers. CCS stations are typically small, superchargers typically large.

SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
...and? As long as there are chargers available at a particular station, why should I care how many are sitting unused? I've been by many Supercharger stations where there were no cars charging at all. Sometimes I see one or two, but the majority of the time most of the chargers are empty. The number of locations indicates the flexibility of the charging network. There are CCS chargers in places where Superchargers don't exist, meaning you have more places you can go with CCS than you can go with a Tesla. And that isn't a hypothetical. I've driven down to the Carlsbad Caverns with my family in the past, and I wanted to do it again with my electric car. For a long time, southwest New Mexico had NO fast charging stations for any brand of charger, but in the last year it's gained enough CCS chargers that I could comfortably drive back to the caverns without worrying about range. And there are still no Superchargers within a hundred miles. (Note I'd be coming from Colorado, so driving down from the north side of the state--you could probably make it TO Carlsbad from a west Texas Supercharger, and then make it back to the same Supercharger, but that would be many hours of driving out of my way.) Would I like to see more redundancy at every location? Sure. But to me it's more important that there are chargers available where I want to go than that there are a ton of redundant chargers at every location. Maybe if I lived in LA and wanted to be able to drive to SF I would have different priorities.

WorldMaker 3y ago

SAE (the Society of Automotive Engineers) just formally adopted NACS as preferred standard [1], so CCS1 may have indeed "lost". Conversion of existing CCS1 chargers was one of the things SAE supposedly considered in making the decision. NACS "speaks CCS software over Tesla-designed hardware" so it's mostly just a hardware change at one end of the cable. (Tesla made some smart decisions when they decided to standards track NACS.) [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775208/tesla-nacs-electric-car-charging-standard-sae-chargepoint https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775208/tesla-nacs-elect...

SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
We'll see what happens, I guess. As long as I can charge my car (Ioniq 5) moving forward, it doesn't really matter. CCS has higher speed charging than is available at Superchargers, at least for my car, though, so I hope the NACS standard has the ability to support the higher charging speed.