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I've found this is a generational thing in my social circles. The older generations have a philosophy of "you don't talk about politics, religion, or money" and

I've found this is a generational thing in my social circles. The older generations have a philosophy of "you don't talk about politics, religion, or money" and, the younger generations, that's all they talk about.

TremendousJudge 3y ago
maybe it's learned behavior?
tonyarkles 3y ago
I’m probably in between “the younger generations” and “the older generations” at this point in my life. One of the interesting observations I’ve made hanging around younger people is that they do seem to talk about politics quite a bit, but in a homogenous way. With older people, I know a number of right-leaning and left-leaning people and they don’t talk about politics with each other because they’ll just end up pissed off with each other. With younger people it seems they tend to form social circles that are very politically aligned, so no one’s going to get angry talking about politics. (Compared to, say, forming social circles around a baseball team or something like that)
- brightball 3y ago
  This is my experience as well.
- sfink 3y ago
  Yes. In the younger circles, it seems like there's a very brief period of telegraphing your "tribe", and once you detect the matching cues you can assume you know pretty much everything about the other's point of view. To the point that there's no reason to discuss anything, you may as well both hold up a preprinted sheet listing out everything the "good" side believes. Occasionally people will push on the extreme edges of that accepted area, maybe even commiserate on how some things are taken too far, but without ever really challenging the basic belief or seeking to find where the edge of reasonableness might be. It's not horrible, and I'm just an old fogey whinging here. It just gets under my skin when I hear for the hundredth time a group of kids talking about stuff that I basically agree with, but taking it to the extreme without an ounce of self-awareness that they've crossed into the zone of ridiculousness. In a way it's because I'm the same, I want "my side" to be more rigorous and intellectually honest than the "sheep on the other side", and it's uncomfortable to realize that the people who largely agree with me on the topics are so sloppy at how they got there. If something else becomes fashionable, they'll just adopt that instead. And if some question comes up, it'll be decided by what feels most in line with what they've already agreed to believe, regardless of the actual merits. I guess I'll just worry about keeping them off my lawn.
  - xp84 3y ago
    This is so relatable. It also makes me reflect on how annoying I must have sounded at 25!
  - tonyarkles 3y ago
    > In a way it's because I'm the same, I want "my side" to be more rigorous and intellectually honest than the "sheep on the other side" Man… I’ll preface this by saying I’m Canadian and that in Canada 80% of firearms deaths are intentionally self-inflicted. It’s a piece of important colour for what I’m about to say next. I am a very left-leaning firearm owner in Canada and your comment perfectly describes my frustration. I have a few friends who will engage in a healthy discussion on the topic, but so so often it just turns into thought-terminating cliches and memes. And on the other side of it, many of the people I run into at the range are full of right-wing thought-terminating cliches, memes, and conspiracy theories. Urgh. Oh well, at least I can go out to the farm and put holes in boxes in peace!
  - newacct3 3y ago
    > In the younger circles, it seems like there's a very brief period of telegraphing your "tribe", and once you detect the matching cues you can assume you know pretty much everything about the other's point of view This is just a sign of a lack of sophistication, afaik it isn't purely generational A couple weeks ago someone said to me that lying was a "violation of the first amendment" and I asked them "what's in the first amendment?" just to hear some dumbfounded response A bunch of voters in this country are only functionally literate and it's depressing
Alupis 3y ago
> the younger generations, that's all they talk about There's something to this, I think. For younger generations, politics has become an identity and seems to influence a significant majority of their life - including who they associate with, etc. I enjoy the sport of the debate - but am very careful not to "get into it" with people who do not initiate that conversation on their own. Not everyone can have a debate and walk away at the end not thinking less of the other person.
- shagie 3y ago
  Keep Your Identity Small (2009) http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html (see also https://hn.algolia.com/?q=keep+your+identity https://hn.algolia.com/?q=keep+your+identity ) > I finally realized today why politics and religion yield such uniquely useless discussions. > As a rule, any mention of religion on an online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript or baking or other topics people talk about on forums? --- Also https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/ https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/
  - musicale 3y ago
    > online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript Isn't it a law that all programming language discussions eventually devolve into religious arguments? I can't imagine Javascript is somehow immune.
    - elzbardico 3y ago
      Paul Graham wrote this in 2009. Nowadays? I believe that quite a few homicides could be traced to have started with discussions about baking, beer brewing, or cooking. People are fucking opinionated about everything nowadays.
- rurp 3y ago
  My big issue with arguing about politics is that the vast majority of people seem to have no interest in an actual debate; they just want to rant about their positions regardless of what the other party says. This leads to extremely boring conversations. I have a few close friends that I actually enjoy debating with because they will listen to arguments with an open mind and often make thoughtful arguments that cause me to reevaluate. If someone I don't know well asks if I'm interested in anything politics related my answer is now a hard no, even though I actually do follow politics quite a lot. Those conversations practially always end up feeling like a waste of time, IME.
JohnFen 3y ago
> The older generations have a philosophy of "you don't talk about politics, religion, or money" and, the younger generations, that's all they talk about. Boy, I wish that were the case where I work. I'm an older developer, working closely with an ancient developer. He insists on talking politics at work. Since I prefer to get along with my coworkers, I won't talk politics with them. This guy just won't catch a hint, though. It makes conversations with him difficult as he keeps trying to engage me in these topics and I keep trying to change the subject.
- vlod 3y ago
  Tip: put on headphones :)

TremendousJudge 3y ago

maybe it's learned behavior?

tonyarkles 3y ago

I’m probably in between “the younger generations” and “the older generations” at this point in my life. One of the interesting observations I’ve made hanging around younger people is that they do seem to talk about politics quite a bit, but in a homogenous way. With older people, I know a number of right-leaning and left-leaning people and they don’t talk about politics with each other because they’ll just end up pissed off with each other. With younger people it seems they tend to form social circles that are very politically aligned, so no one’s going to get angry talking about politics. (Compared to, say, forming social circles around a baseball team or something like that)

brightball 3y ago
This is my experience as well.
sfink 3y ago
Yes. In the younger circles, it seems like there's a very brief period of telegraphing your "tribe", and once you detect the matching cues you can assume you know pretty much everything about the other's point of view. To the point that there's no reason to discuss anything, you may as well both hold up a preprinted sheet listing out everything the "good" side believes. Occasionally people will push on the extreme edges of that accepted area, maybe even commiserate on how some things are taken too far, but without ever really challenging the basic belief or seeking to find where the edge of reasonableness might be. It's not horrible, and I'm just an old fogey whinging here. It just gets under my skin when I hear for the hundredth time a group of kids talking about stuff that I basically agree with, but taking it to the extreme without an ounce of self-awareness that they've crossed into the zone of ridiculousness. In a way it's because I'm the same, I want "my side" to be more rigorous and intellectually honest than the "sheep on the other side", and it's uncomfortable to realize that the people who largely agree with me on the topics are so sloppy at how they got there. If something else becomes fashionable, they'll just adopt that instead. And if some question comes up, it'll be decided by what feels most in line with what they've already agreed to believe, regardless of the actual merits. I guess I'll just worry about keeping them off my lawn.
- xp84 3y ago
  This is so relatable. It also makes me reflect on how annoying I must have sounded at 25!
- tonyarkles 3y ago
  > In a way it's because I'm the same, I want "my side" to be more rigorous and intellectually honest than the "sheep on the other side" Man… I’ll preface this by saying I’m Canadian and that in Canada 80% of firearms deaths are intentionally self-inflicted. It’s a piece of important colour for what I’m about to say next. I am a very left-leaning firearm owner in Canada and your comment perfectly describes my frustration. I have a few friends who will engage in a healthy discussion on the topic, but so so often it just turns into thought-terminating cliches and memes. And on the other side of it, many of the people I run into at the range are full of right-wing thought-terminating cliches, memes, and conspiracy theories. Urgh. Oh well, at least I can go out to the farm and put holes in boxes in peace!
- newacct3 3y ago
  > In the younger circles, it seems like there's a very brief period of telegraphing your "tribe", and once you detect the matching cues you can assume you know pretty much everything about the other's point of view This is just a sign of a lack of sophistication, afaik it isn't purely generational A couple weeks ago someone said to me that lying was a "violation of the first amendment" and I asked them "what's in the first amendment?" just to hear some dumbfounded response A bunch of voters in this country are only functionally literate and it's depressing

Alupis 3y ago

> the younger generations, that's all they talk about There's something to this, I think. For younger generations, politics has become an identity and seems to influence a significant majority of their life - including who they associate with, etc. I enjoy the sport of the debate - but am very careful not to "get into it" with people who do not initiate that conversation on their own. Not everyone can have a debate and walk away at the end not thinking less of the other person.

shagie 3y ago
Keep Your Identity Small (2009) http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html (see also https://hn.algolia.com/?q=keep+your+identity https://hn.algolia.com/?q=keep+your+identity ) > I finally realized today why politics and religion yield such uniquely useless discussions. > As a rule, any mention of religion on an online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript or baking or other topics people talk about on forums? --- Also https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/ https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/
- musicale 3y ago
  > online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript Isn't it a law that all programming language discussions eventually devolve into religious arguments? I can't imagine Javascript is somehow immune.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    Paul Graham wrote this in 2009. Nowadays? I believe that quite a few homicides could be traced to have started with discussions about baking, beer brewing, or cooking. People are fucking opinionated about everything nowadays.
rurp 3y ago
My big issue with arguing about politics is that the vast majority of people seem to have no interest in an actual debate; they just want to rant about their positions regardless of what the other party says. This leads to extremely boring conversations. I have a few close friends that I actually enjoy debating with because they will listen to arguments with an open mind and often make thoughtful arguments that cause me to reevaluate. If someone I don't know well asks if I'm interested in anything politics related my answer is now a hard no, even though I actually do follow politics quite a lot. Those conversations practially always end up feeling like a waste of time, IME.

JohnFen 3y ago

> The older generations have a philosophy of "you don't talk about politics, religion, or money" and, the younger generations, that's all they talk about. Boy, I wish that were the case where I work. I'm an older developer, working closely with an ancient developer. He insists on talking politics at work. Since I prefer to get along with my coworkers, I won't talk politics with them. This guy just won't catch a hint, though. It makes conversations with him difficult as he keeps trying to engage me in these topics and I keep trying to change the subject.

vlod 3y ago
Tip: put on headphones :)