5 ms·

Gradual improvements are the finest quality coffee for a programmer's mug. I would quite enjoy a future of writing clean, procedural programs with an improved C

Gradual improvements are the finest quality coffee for a programmer's mug. I would quite enjoy a future of writing clean, procedural programs with an improved C standard, VMs that are cleaner and easier to set up, and the latest edition of vanillajs

bitwize 3y ago
If you want to write clean procedural programs with an improvement over C, you know where to find Free Pascal :)
- c_crank 3y ago
  I actually don't know where to find Free Pascal - the question of which kind of Pascal and which compiler / build environment to use always seemed leery for someone looking for a Better C type language.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    https://www.freepascal.org/ https://www.freepascal.org/ It's also likely in your favorite distro's repo. Among Pascal fans, Free Pascal is generally considered "the way" because it's closest to Turbo Pascal/Delphi.
    - AstralStorm 3y ago
      It is an Object Pascal (8 I believe?) implementation - has a backwards compatible unextended mode that matches Delphi. It does have a few extras of its own, especially improved assembly and C integrations. Lazarus is the open Delphi libraries implementation that uses it.
erichocean 3y ago
> I would quite enjoy a future of writing clean, procedural programs with an improved C standard That would look a lot like the Zig language, it's delightful to use. What Rust is to C++, Zig is to C.
- einpoklum 3y ago
  > What Rust is to C++, Zig is to C. No, they don't relate at all in the same way. (And that's not to mention the lack of consensus about what Rust is to C++...) That being said - Zig is quite the interesting language.
  - Karrot_Kream 3y ago
    At a 5000 ft level, I think it makes sense. C++ strives for zero-cost abstractions and lots of complexity with a side effect of making development more tractable for large teams with varying levels of familiarity with the codebase. Rust does the same thing, but uses different tools and levels. C has much lower language complexity but also requires longer onboarding times for engineers new to a project, at the cost of some sharp footguns that an experienced practitioner can avoid. Zig relative to Rust falls closer to this than a zero-cost abstraction based high-complexity language. Obviously the devil is in the details and Zig and C are very different languages, but I think the analogy stands well.

bitwize 3y ago

If you want to write clean procedural programs with an improvement over C, you know where to find Free Pascal :)

c_crank 3y ago
I actually don't know where to find Free Pascal - the question of which kind of Pascal and which compiler / build environment to use always seemed leery for someone looking for a Better C type language.
- bitwize 3y ago
  https://www.freepascal.org/ https://www.freepascal.org/ It's also likely in your favorite distro's repo. Among Pascal fans, Free Pascal is generally considered "the way" because it's closest to Turbo Pascal/Delphi.
  - AstralStorm 3y ago
    It is an Object Pascal (8 I believe?) implementation - has a backwards compatible unextended mode that matches Delphi. It does have a few extras of its own, especially improved assembly and C integrations. Lazarus is the open Delphi libraries implementation that uses it.

erichocean 3y ago

> I would quite enjoy a future of writing clean, procedural programs with an improved C standard That would look a lot like the Zig language, it's delightful to use. What Rust is to C++, Zig is to C.

einpoklum 3y ago
> What Rust is to C++, Zig is to C. No, they don't relate at all in the same way. (And that's not to mention the lack of consensus about what Rust is to C++...) That being said - Zig is quite the interesting language.
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  At a 5000 ft level, I think it makes sense. C++ strives for zero-cost abstractions and lots of complexity with a side effect of making development more tractable for large teams with varying levels of familiarity with the codebase. Rust does the same thing, but uses different tools and levels. C has much lower language complexity but also requires longer onboarding times for engineers new to a project, at the cost of some sharp footguns that an experienced practitioner can avoid. Zig relative to Rust falls closer to this than a zero-cost abstraction based high-complexity language. Obviously the devil is in the details and Zig and C are very different languages, but I think the analogy stands well.