6 ms·

Good. Great. As long as there's just one, I don't care which.

notyourwork 3y ago
My only concern with one is that we're giving one private company a monopoly on it. Is that good, I'm not sure but in general it's usually not good for consumers.
- flutas 3y ago
  Looks like SAE is writing standards for it, so doesn't seem like the monopoly power is going to be there. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-electric-vehicle-charging-plug-standard/bab5ae42-1508-11ee-9de3-ba1fa29e9bec_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-ele...
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Are we giving them a monopoly? The standard was published, and as someone else mentioned SAE is in the process of formalizing it. I also doubt very much that Ford, GM, et al actually negotiated their contracts without some stipulation that there couldn't be a rug pull.
dghughes 3y ago
My Canadian town of 70,000 has about 100 public CCS charging stations but one for Telsa. So no not great. It's already there so why are they switching? A GM executive was on the news saying how Canadians complained in a survey there were not enough charging stations. I say BS. This sudden study appears and contradicts the 10:1 ratio of CCS to Tesla charger in my town?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > My Canadian town of 70,000...It's already there so why are they switching? It's estimated America will need around 2mm EV chargers by 2030; it currently has about 160k [1]. Every charger currently deployed is less than a tenth of what we need in seven years. That's not quite tabula rasa, but it's close. CCS lost because it prioritized backward compatibility in an environment where most of what's needed must be built. The difference between sticking with existing infrastructure and retrofitting is, in the grand scheme, a rounding error and so properly ignored. [1] https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-the-us-has-and-how-many-it-needs/#:~:text=And%20looking%20to%202030%2C%20with,addition%20to%20home%20EV%20chargers https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-th...
  - vkou 3y ago
    Normal people buy cars for what's available now, not XY years in the future. The current set of customers isn't a rounding error.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Normal people buy cars for what's available now There are more CCS stations than Tesla, though there are more NACS ports [1]. Tesla also has the first-mover advantage in having sited prime locations. The deciding factor, however, was reliability: Tesla's Superchargers work. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-charging-standard-tesla/ https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-chargi...
  - SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
    Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter. So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1] A stronger position in the market only amplifies itself. Beta was better in every way than VHS, but VHS had a lead in popularity, and network effects eventually resulted in the death of Beta. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-charging-standard-tesla/ https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-chargi...
    - brewdad 3y ago
      How many of those CCS stations are actually up and running properly? I can't stand Musk and Tesla and haven't yet made the jump into EVs but I plan to soon and everything I've seen online suggests Telsa chargers just work while EA and other CCS brands are extremely hit and miss.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Other than new stations that just haven't come online, I've never once pulled up to a location and failed to charge at a decent rate. Similar experiences with most people I've talked to actually at the stations I'm charging at. I'm sure wherever these reviewers are doing their reviews, they're getting bad experiences. But personally I've never once had a problem. Maybe bad maintenance is more of a localized thing?
- theluketaylor 3y ago
  CCS or J-1772? 100 DC fast charging plugs would be a lot, I'm guessing most of these 100 are actually J-1772 L2 AC plugs and not CCS combo 1. It's pretty cheap to get an adaptor for J-1772 <--> Tesla in either direction for AC usage, so in practice AC plugs are basically universal. DC adaptors are much more expensive due to needing really high kW capable connectors and often require active communication within the adaptor.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Now that Tesla chargers can talk the same CCS protocol and Teslas these days can speak CCS, newer adapters can just be dumb adapters either way.
wnevets 3y ago
There was already just one standard plus Tesla.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  There are several standards for EV charging, even if you limit yourself to only counting SAE.
KyleBerezin 3y ago
Lightning bolts appear and newspapers begin to fly around
rootusrootus 3y ago
I am kinda glad that NACS won. It wouldn't really break my heart if it did not, but I own two EVs -- one is CCS1, the other Tesla. It's just a minor irritation, but there is no doubt at all that the J1772 connector is far more likely to be finicky when I plug it in every day. The fact that it's the same connector no matter what kind of charging is happening is icing on the cake.

My only concern with one is that we're giving one private company a monopoly on it. Is that good, I'm not sure but in general it's usually not good for consumers.

flutas 3y ago
Looks like SAE is writing standards for it, so doesn't seem like the monopoly power is going to be there. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-electric-vehicle-charging-plug-standard/bab5ae42-1508-11ee-9de3-ba1fa29e9bec_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/06/27/tesla-ele...
rootusrootus 3y ago
Are we giving them a monopoly? The standard was published, and as someone else mentioned SAE is in the process of formalizing it. I also doubt very much that Ford, GM, et al actually negotiated their contracts without some stipulation that there couldn't be a rug pull.

dghughes 3y ago

My Canadian town of 70,000 has about 100 public CCS charging stations but one for Telsa. So no not great. It's already there so why are they switching? A GM executive was on the news saying how Canadians complained in a survey there were not enough charging stations. I say BS. This sudden study appears and contradicts the 10:1 ratio of CCS to Tesla charger in my town?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> My Canadian town of 70,000...It's already there so why are they switching? It's estimated America will need around 2mm EV chargers by 2030; it currently has about 160k [1]. Every charger currently deployed is less than a tenth of what we need in seven years. That's not quite tabula rasa, but it's close. CCS lost because it prioritized backward compatibility in an environment where most of what's needed must be built. The difference between sticking with existing infrastructure and retrofitting is, in the grand scheme, a rounding error and so properly ignored. [1] https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-the-us-has-and-how-many-it-needs/#:~:text=And%20looking%20to%202030%2C%20with,addition%20to%20home%20EV%20chargers https://electrek.co/2023/01/09/heres-how-many-ev-chargers-th...
- vkou 3y ago
  Normal people buy cars for what's available now, not XY years in the future. The current set of customers isn't a rounding error.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Normal people buy cars for what's available now There are more CCS stations than Tesla, though there are more NACS ports [1]. Tesla also has the first-mover advantage in having sited prime locations. The deciding factor, however, was reliability: Tesla's Superchargers work. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-charging-standard-tesla/ https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-chargi...
- SomeCallMeTim 3y ago
  Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter. So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1] A stronger position in the market only amplifies itself. Beta was better in every way than VHS, but VHS had a lead in popularity, and network effects eventually resulted in the death of Beta. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-charging-standard-tesla/ https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-chargi...
  - brewdad 3y ago
    How many of those CCS stations are actually up and running properly? I can't stand Musk and Tesla and haven't yet made the jump into EVs but I plan to soon and everything I've seen online suggests Telsa chargers just work while EA and other CCS brands are extremely hit and miss.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Other than new stations that just haven't come online, I've never once pulled up to a location and failed to charge at a decent rate. Similar experiences with most people I've talked to actually at the stations I'm charging at. I'm sure wherever these reviewers are doing their reviews, they're getting bad experiences. But personally I've never once had a problem. Maybe bad maintenance is more of a localized thing?
theluketaylor 3y ago
CCS or J-1772? 100 DC fast charging plugs would be a lot, I'm guessing most of these 100 are actually J-1772 L2 AC plugs and not CCS combo 1. It's pretty cheap to get an adaptor for J-1772 <--> Tesla in either direction for AC usage, so in practice AC plugs are basically universal. DC adaptors are much more expensive due to needing really high kW capable connectors and often require active communication within the adaptor.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Now that Tesla chargers can talk the same CCS protocol and Teslas these days can speak CCS, newer adapters can just be dumb adapters either way.

wnevets 3y ago

There was already just one standard plus Tesla.

rootusrootus 3y ago
There are several standards for EV charging, even if you limit yourself to only counting SAE.

KyleBerezin 3y ago

Lightning bolts appear and newspapers begin to fly around

rootusrootus 3y ago

I am kinda glad that NACS won. It wouldn't really break my heart if it did not, but I own two EVs -- one is CCS1, the other Tesla. It's just a minor irritation, but there is no doubt at all that the J1772 connector is far more likely to be finicky when I plug it in every day. The fact that it's the same connector no matter what kind of charging is happening is icing on the cake.