4 ms·

> What you really need is state monitoring. You know, the old Nagios style that everybody thinks is out of date because, again, reasons. Just start by having e2

> What you really need is state monitoring. You know, the old Nagios style that everybody thinks is out of date because, again, reasons. Just start by having e2e tests for everything and add intermediate tests when you discover points of failure and bottlenecks. "State monitoring" are just different metrics. State of X at time Y was Z. Blackbox Exporter covers a lot of ground here. If you need more advanced application instrumentation, you can build that, but there is real value in having all of your metrics in one place instead of siloing different bits out to Nagios.

trabant00 3y ago
> "State monitoring" are just different metrics True but also misleading. In the end everything is really math but that is unhelpful. What matters is the model you apply to your numbers. And state monitoring as thought by Nagios is that you have 4 states: ok, warning, critical, unknown. And you have hard and soft states. This can be replicated with prometheus queries but it's incredibly complex and error prone, not to mention you will destroy your metrics storage IO. Theory crafting aside I've created in a few months a monitoring system using Icinga that had virtually no false positives or negatives. That you could trust to phone you straight though without fear it will miss something important for business or wake you up for nothing. I never saw anything like this done with metrics or logs done by anybody.
- preseinger 3y ago
  icinga? nagios? you're stuck in 1999 friend these tools, and the patterns they enable, have been outmoded for over a decade
  - trabant00 3y ago
    Your arguments won me over
- pphysch 3y ago
  > I never saw anything like this done with metrics or logs done by anybody. Well, I assure you it can be done and it is not nearly as scary as you presume. I migrated an old Nagios+Cacti system to Prometheus (well, VictoriaMetrics) for a DC with thousands of servers. Nagios using 4-valued datatypes for virtually EVERYTHING is frankly just poor design. As soon as you move away from binary state, the semantics becomes ambiguous. Consider these two monitoring systems: - Nagios-style: 1+ state metric for your HTTP service. "Warning" indicates something wrong but not critical. What exactly? Usually you will see the warning and then look at metrics in sysstat or Cacti as a follow up. - Prometheus-style: 1+ state metric for HTTP probe, and a few relevant performance metrics. RPS, latency, etc. The merit of the latter is you use the exact same alerting + visualization infrastructure for both types of data. You create a CRITICAL alert if the service is down, and WARNING alerts if RPS/latency crosses thresholds. Importantly, this data is not siloed into Nagios and can be used for other purposes such as usage analytics and cross-domain incident analysis. The alerting service is just one possible consumer.
  - trabant00 3y ago
    And had the final result of the migration completely automated alerts? Or did you have to employ round the clock L1s to weed through the alerts?
    - pphysch 3y ago
      Of course the alerts work. Alertmanager can do it all. Meanwhile, a lot of the admins had routed Nagios noise to junk inboxes.
      - trabant00 3y ago
        That's not what I'm asking. Of course Alertmanager works. Did you get the system to the point where all the false positives are eliminated and you don't miss any failure either, such that you don't need L1 to stay in 3 shifts in front of a couple of monitors and decide when to call Ops? Meaning you can have your alerting system automatically and directly call L3.

trabant00 3y ago

> "State monitoring" are just different metrics True but also misleading. In the end everything is really math but that is unhelpful. What matters is the model you apply to your numbers. And state monitoring as thought by Nagios is that you have 4 states: ok, warning, critical, unknown. And you have hard and soft states. This can be replicated with prometheus queries but it's incredibly complex and error prone, not to mention you will destroy your metrics storage IO. Theory crafting aside I've created in a few months a monitoring system using Icinga that had virtually no false positives or negatives. That you could trust to phone you straight though without fear it will miss something important for business or wake you up for nothing. I never saw anything like this done with metrics or logs done by anybody.

preseinger 3y ago
icinga? nagios? you're stuck in 1999 friend these tools, and the patterns they enable, have been outmoded for over a decade
- trabant00 3y ago
  Your arguments won me over
pphysch 3y ago
> I never saw anything like this done with metrics or logs done by anybody. Well, I assure you it can be done and it is not nearly as scary as you presume. I migrated an old Nagios+Cacti system to Prometheus (well, VictoriaMetrics) for a DC with thousands of servers. Nagios using 4-valued datatypes for virtually EVERYTHING is frankly just poor design. As soon as you move away from binary state, the semantics becomes ambiguous. Consider these two monitoring systems: - Nagios-style: 1+ state metric for your HTTP service. "Warning" indicates something wrong but not critical. What exactly? Usually you will see the warning and then look at metrics in sysstat or Cacti as a follow up. - Prometheus-style: 1+ state metric for HTTP probe, and a few relevant performance metrics. RPS, latency, etc. The merit of the latter is you use the exact same alerting + visualization infrastructure for both types of data. You create a CRITICAL alert if the service is down, and WARNING alerts if RPS/latency crosses thresholds. Importantly, this data is not siloed into Nagios and can be used for other purposes such as usage analytics and cross-domain incident analysis. The alerting service is just one possible consumer.
- trabant00 3y ago
  And had the final result of the migration completely automated alerts? Or did you have to employ round the clock L1s to weed through the alerts?
  - pphysch 3y ago
    Of course the alerts work. Alertmanager can do it all. Meanwhile, a lot of the admins had routed Nagios noise to junk inboxes.
    - trabant00 3y ago
      That's not what I'm asking. Of course Alertmanager works. Did you get the system to the point where all the false positives are eliminated and you don't miss any failure either, such that you don't need L1 to stay in 3 shifts in front of a couple of monitors and decide when to call Ops? Meaning you can have your alerting system automatically and directly call L3.