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Just before the pandemic, I was taking a Stanford Extension class on Ulysses. A few students were taking it for credit, but most of us were there purely because
by AlbertCory 3y ago
Just before the pandemic, I was taking a Stanford Extension class on Ulysses. A few students were taking it for credit, but most of us were there purely because we wanted to be. I'd always wanted to read it.
The teacher had been teaching that book since the early 70s. We had a guidebook to help us through it. We all had a particular edition, so the teacher could say "on page 341" and we all could go there. Whatever else you can say, this was about as ideal an environment as you could wish for.
Meh. I can see it was groundbreaking in its time, but now? Outlived its shelf life. Stream-of-consciousness was revolutionary, I give him credit, but now it's routine.
Even at the time, Einstein, Freud, and Darwin were revolutionizing modern thought, and Joyce was resolutely ignorant of them.
People say, "What about all the symbolism? What about all the word play?" Again, I say, meh.
Anna Karenina -- now that's a great novel.
- mistrial9 3y ago"one man gathers what another man spills"
- Cupertino95014 3y agoOut of curiosity: have you read the book?
- mistrial9 3y agoI did read some Joyce but not much.. I was not hooked on it or a fan, myself. The experience of a mature adult reader, "seeing the shortcomings of this work" is not particularly praise-worthy even if completely true, in my opinion. Different personalities and intellects may experience that literature at different stages of life, in character development themselves, in retrospect... A work of "art" let's say.. literature.. is not only the words or the story, it is an experience for the reader, and product of the author and their team of teams, the printers and publishers themselves. It is a toe into "cancel culture" to dismiss as trivial or wanting, a work that has in the large, affected many people. Maybe every word of that review is real, to that person, but it does not much good, or show any respect, to spoil it that way.. hence my comment
- AlbertCory 3y agoYour comment seems directed at other people. My comment was in no way, shape, or form "cancel culture." I read the book with good will and much effort; you did not. Debates about the continuing worth of a piece of art are always relevant and worthwhile. Other people responded honestly to the comment. Sorry you can't.
- mistrial9 3y agowait, which part of my comment was not honest?
- dumpsterlid 3y ago[dead]
- mkehrt 3y agoInteresting. I just finished reading Ulysses with a group of friends, and I thought it was a work of absolute fucking genius. One of the best things I've ever read--possibly the best thing I've ever read--hands down. It's not just stream of consciousness; it's the way each chapter is structured differently, has different themes and different form. The stream of consciousness comes and goes--some sections are easy, and some are incomprehensible. One chapter is a play; one chapter is a series of pastiches of different English styles throughout the past millennium; one chapter is an absurdly over-erudite lecture on Shakespeare; one chapter is an orgasm. I learned a lot about Irish history. The language is absolutely exquisite with endless onomatopoeia. I kept switch back and forth between listening to and reading it, or doing both simultaneously. It was incredibly hard to get through and absolutely amazing.
- AlbertCory 3y agoYeah, I've heard all that. Also struggled through the part where he says the same thing in 14 different styles (if that's the number). Impressive and I'm sure it was difficult as hell to write, but what do you, the reader, get out of it? Some deeper understanding of the human condition? Please.
- viscanti 3y ago> but what do you, the reader, get out of it? Some deeper understanding of the human condition? Please. Certainly there are some chapters/styles where he's playing for the critics. But I thought it did a brilliant job of creating a modernist hero (e.g Bloom snuggling his wife's butt and her farting in his face). For me, the most impactful part was showing Bloom from so many different perspectives. Seeing him in less heroic settings (like what he does on the beach) or from his wife's perspective gives him depth you rarely see in literature. It's ultimately a story about nothing, so if you're not into a hyper-stylized prose based exploration of Bloom, then it won't be for you. I think the challenging aspects can work to force a reader to think more critically about some parts (just so they can make it through and understand what they're reading) and connect with things in a way most books won't ever engage a reader. Lots of readers do find some deeper understanding of the human condition, but it won't be for everyone, especially someone who cares more for a plot than an experiment in narrative structure exploring a flawed modernist hero.
- throwawayixnay 3y ago[dead]
- s_dev 3y agoWhy would a English literature expert be expected to be on top of the cutting edge of science? Why is Anna Karenina a great novel?
- gochi 3y ago[flagged]
- AlbertCory 3y ago[flagged]
- gochi 3y ago[flagged]
- pjungwir 3y agoIn that case you might enjoy On Moral Fiction by John Gardner. Anna Karenina is his favorite example of a good novel, and he disparages the things you are meh about in Ulysses. I general I agree with you, but to me Anna Karenina was sooo boring. Maybe I just wasn't ready for it. David Copperfield or anything by Dostoevsky are more for me.
- AlbertCory 3y agoAnna was boring for you? OK. By the way, if you say The Brothers Karamazov did it for you, I'm really going to be amazed. I have a different book by John Gardner.