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How on Earth are you ever going to reliably prevent false positives for a feature like this while still reliably detecting crashes? I mean realistically unless

by kypro 3y ago

How on Earth are you ever going to reliably prevent false positives for a feature like this while still reliably detecting crashes? I mean realistically unless you have a clear visual of the crash it's going to be very hard to tell a car crash from a loud noise + movement alone. Really they should be asking you if you want to enable "crash detection" before setting off and it should remain disabled at all other times. If you can already ensure the user is in a car and then the phone happens to sense something like a crash then chances are much greater that it's actually a crash.

ben7799 3y ago
Apple's solution or hardware is just half baked. The G-forces in a crash are much higher than dancing. Other implementations are better. I carry an iPhone when I go biking, and I have a Garmin GPS. The Garmin crash detection works far better. The Garmin is tuned well enough to go off on a real crash mountain biking but won't go off if you have an accident that's not a full fall. I have had a very "real" crash and seen the Garmin correctly identify it and the iPhone does not.
cowsup 3y ago
An easy way would be to calculate your speed ahead of time. If I’m going 55 mph (90 km/h), there’s a loud noise, and the phone gets jolted a bit, then it can check the distance it’s traveled for the next 3-4 seconds. If it’s clear that it’s not moving anymore, then it can begin alerting me; no response, it calls 911. Apple currently checks your location periodically, so it can fulfill location-based reminder requests, so I honestly figured a similar tech was used for the crash detection. I’m pretty surprised that that’s not the case.
- Filligree 3y ago
  > Apple currently checks your location periodically, so it can fulfill location-based reminder requests, so I honestly figured a similar tech was used for the crash detection. I’m pretty surprised that that’s not the case. GPS positioning at least used to be power-hungry, to the point it couldn't be run continuously. I'm not sure if that's still the case, but it could be a factor.
kurthr 3y ago
Unless the person has been going faster than 20mph at a turning radius of more than 30ft for more than a few seconds, it's unlikely to be a car accident. Whether the accuracy and sampling rate are always sufficient to distinguish these (or data could be cached with look back at high-g) I don't know. That excludes most human only activities. Of course roller-coasters and various other rides could still trigger it.
- NikkiA 3y ago
  Roller coasters should actually be an easy 'false positive' to avoid - the only time the movement actually 'stops' is at the end of the ride, and not with a high-G event.
supertrope 3y ago
Ban robocalling 911. Security alarms require obtaining an alarm permit. Automated alarms notify the alarm company who call the customer. They ask if help is needed and what their security code is. If the customer says an actual emergency happened they then call 911. In my jurisdiction more than three false alarms results in a fine for the resident/business. The police generally don't respond to an alarm signal unless a person on site calls it in. Although once in the 1990s someone at work didn't know the burglar alarm keypad code and the police did eventually respond with guns drawn. That was a hair raising experience.
- Zamiel_Snawley 3y ago
  Automated security alarms are for protecting property, not saving lives. This is much more like a fire alarm, which does trigger an automatic response. In my view, we should be more lenient with false alarms when it could save someones life, compared to stopping theft.
autoexec 3y ago
Apple knows exactly where you are, how fast you've been traveling and how much distance you've traveled. If you've been standing in a field for the last 40 minutes, and haven't traveled more than 10 meters at a slow pace, and are surrounded by hundreds of other iphones that also have barely moved, you probably aren't suddenly in the middle of a car crash.

by kypro 3y ago

ben7799 3y ago

Apple's solution or hardware is just half baked. The G-forces in a crash are much higher than dancing. Other implementations are better. I carry an iPhone when I go biking, and I have a Garmin GPS. The Garmin crash detection works far better. The Garmin is tuned well enough to go off on a real crash mountain biking but won't go off if you have an accident that's not a full fall. I have had a very "real" crash and seen the Garmin correctly identify it and the iPhone does not.

cowsup 3y ago

An easy way would be to calculate your speed ahead of time. If I’m going 55 mph (90 km/h), there’s a loud noise, and the phone gets jolted a bit, then it can check the distance it’s traveled for the next 3-4 seconds. If it’s clear that it’s not moving anymore, then it can begin alerting me; no response, it calls 911. Apple currently checks your location periodically, so it can fulfill location-based reminder requests, so I honestly figured a similar tech was used for the crash detection. I’m pretty surprised that that’s not the case.

Filligree 3y ago
> Apple currently checks your location periodically, so it can fulfill location-based reminder requests, so I honestly figured a similar tech was used for the crash detection. I’m pretty surprised that that’s not the case. GPS positioning at least used to be power-hungry, to the point it couldn't be run continuously. I'm not sure if that's still the case, but it could be a factor.

kurthr 3y ago

Unless the person has been going faster than 20mph at a turning radius of more than 30ft for more than a few seconds, it's unlikely to be a car accident. Whether the accuracy and sampling rate are always sufficient to distinguish these (or data could be cached with look back at high-g) I don't know. That excludes most human only activities. Of course roller-coasters and various other rides could still trigger it.

NikkiA 3y ago
Roller coasters should actually be an easy 'false positive' to avoid - the only time the movement actually 'stops' is at the end of the ride, and not with a high-G event.

supertrope 3y ago

Ban robocalling 911. Security alarms require obtaining an alarm permit. Automated alarms notify the alarm company who call the customer. They ask if help is needed and what their security code is. If the customer says an actual emergency happened they then call 911. In my jurisdiction more than three false alarms results in a fine for the resident/business. The police generally don't respond to an alarm signal unless a person on site calls it in. Although once in the 1990s someone at work didn't know the burglar alarm keypad code and the police did eventually respond with guns drawn. That was a hair raising experience.

Zamiel_Snawley 3y ago
Automated security alarms are for protecting property, not saving lives. This is much more like a fire alarm, which does trigger an automatic response. In my view, we should be more lenient with false alarms when it could save someones life, compared to stopping theft.

autoexec 3y ago

Apple knows exactly where you are, how fast you've been traveling and how much distance you've traveled. If you've been standing in a field for the last 40 minutes, and haven't traveled more than 10 meters at a slow pace, and are surrounded by hundreds of other iphones that also have barely moved, you probably aren't suddenly in the middle of a car crash.