3 ms·

I have a problem with portraying drugs as magic pills of wisdom. Like with every substance there are always many shades of grey. Not to mention placebo effect.

BoxOfRain 3y ago
Alexander Shulgin had it right I think: >The most compelling insight of that day was that this awesome recall had been brought about by a fraction of a gram of a white solid, but that in no way whatsoever could it be argued that these memories had been contained within the white solid. Everything I had recognized came from the depths of my memory and my psyche. I understood that our entire universe is contained in the mind and the spirit. We may choose not to find access to it, we may even deny its existence, but it is indeed there inside us, and there are chemicals that can catalyze its availability.
deleted 3y ago
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c_crank 3y ago
The experience many authors have of unlocking deep wisdom from drugs seems genuine, in the sense that they are not lying about it, but any actual wisdom involved is hard to find. I wait for the day when the common 60's literature scene of the protagonist doing mushrooms and having his mind blown is mocked by all.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Eh wisdom is experiential and a lot of it sounds mundane and even cliche when stated straightforwardly. "We're all interconnected," "live life in the moment," etc are boring and cliche we've all heard them a lot. But they are also profound & wise and you could spend hours thinking on their details and consequences and how to apply them to your life. The wisdom is the experience of doing it, not saying or hearing the words. Psychedelics can give people insight into that experienced value and grow a resolve to apply them to their lives.
  - c_crank 3y ago
    I'm not sure I would describe either of those phrases as being particularly wise. The first is a basic observation that might lead you to noticing things like 7 degrees of separation, the other is advice that helps some people and not others. When I really think wisdom, I think of a lesson that gets burned into the mind, of not repeating a mistake.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Sounds like you should do some mushrooms then my friend.
    - theobromananda 3y ago
      You are experiencing exactly the phenomenon the previous poster was describing. Because you did not have the experiences that produced theses cliched phrases, they seem mundane and not wise to you. Once you do have these experiences, you will go "Ooooh, that is what they meant!". Had this experience hundreds of times. You may need some psychedelics.
  - BobbyJo 3y ago
    This is something I come back to frequently in my life. It's like that moment when something your parents told you over and over again as a child suddenly makes sense. I think the distinction is process vs initiative. You can teach people processes easily, but only experience can generate the initiative that conjures the process in the moments it is useful or necessary. Experience is what integrates the process into the person.
- say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
  He had to take mushrooms to change his neuro-circuitry! What an ape!
sound1 3y ago
Reminds me of Neem Karoli Baba incident: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfMKXE0UFo&pp=ygUUbmVlbSBrYXJvbGkgYmFiYSBsc2Q%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfMKXE0UFo&pp=ygUUbmVlbSBrYXJ...

BoxOfRain 3y ago

Alexander Shulgin had it right I think: >The most compelling insight of that day was that this awesome recall had been brought about by a fraction of a gram of a white solid, but that in no way whatsoever could it be argued that these memories had been contained within the white solid. Everything I had recognized came from the depths of my memory and my psyche. I understood that our entire universe is contained in the mind and the spirit. We may choose not to find access to it, we may even deny its existence, but it is indeed there inside us, and there are chemicals that can catalyze its availability.

deleted 3y ago

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c_crank 3y ago

The experience many authors have of unlocking deep wisdom from drugs seems genuine, in the sense that they are not lying about it, but any actual wisdom involved is hard to find. I wait for the day when the common 60's literature scene of the protagonist doing mushrooms and having his mind blown is mocked by all.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Eh wisdom is experiential and a lot of it sounds mundane and even cliche when stated straightforwardly. "We're all interconnected," "live life in the moment," etc are boring and cliche we've all heard them a lot. But they are also profound & wise and you could spend hours thinking on their details and consequences and how to apply them to your life. The wisdom is the experience of doing it, not saying or hearing the words. Psychedelics can give people insight into that experienced value and grow a resolve to apply them to their lives.
- c_crank 3y ago
  I'm not sure I would describe either of those phrases as being particularly wise. The first is a basic observation that might lead you to noticing things like 7 degrees of separation, the other is advice that helps some people and not others. When I really think wisdom, I think of a lesson that gets burned into the mind, of not repeating a mistake.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Sounds like you should do some mushrooms then my friend.
  - theobromananda 3y ago
    You are experiencing exactly the phenomenon the previous poster was describing. Because you did not have the experiences that produced theses cliched phrases, they seem mundane and not wise to you. Once you do have these experiences, you will go "Ooooh, that is what they meant!". Had this experience hundreds of times. You may need some psychedelics.
- BobbyJo 3y ago
  This is something I come back to frequently in my life. It's like that moment when something your parents told you over and over again as a child suddenly makes sense. I think the distinction is process vs initiative. You can teach people processes easily, but only experience can generate the initiative that conjures the process in the moments it is useful or necessary. Experience is what integrates the process into the person.
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
He had to take mushrooms to change his neuro-circuitry! What an ape!

sound1 3y ago

Reminds me of Neem Karoli Baba incident: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfMKXE0UFo&pp=ygUUbmVlbSBrYXJvbGkgYmFiYSBsc2Q%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfMKXE0UFo&pp=ygUUbmVlbSBrYXJ...