49 ms·

As someone who travels regularly and is not an American, I've had nothing but frustrations generated by the "TSA". Initially it caused me to unfairly assume all

by verelo 15y ago

As someone who travels regularly and is not an American, I've had nothing but frustrations generated by the "TSA". Initially it caused me to unfairly assume all Americans are like TSA agents (i know this isn't true, but i guess its just my human bias). A few things that frustrate me: - They are not friendly, have a real attitude problem and treat you as if you are guilty before proven innocent. You are the face of the country, the first impression every traveler gets. When i say "how are you doing?" as i approach, its what i say to everyone. Have the common decency to say "Yeah i'm ok" or "Not so great" rather than just looking at me like i'm an idiot. - The TSA doesn't make it clear that they are just specific to the USA. When boarding planes in another country you hear about the "TSA" and you're like "who the hell is this International body that rules transport?". They are private agents of the US, no different to the guards that any other country has. This should be explicitly clear, because they act like gods. - They seriously invade my privacy and treat me as if i have no rights just because im from somewhere else. Nothing says "Welcome to the USA" like having your body photograph, fingerprints taken (the finger printing seriously bothers me...i cant explain why because i dont know why, but it seriously bothers me is all i can say) and some border guard with an attitude problem treating you like you've turned up to take all the jobs. So much freedom, give me a break... Moving all invasions of privacy aside, forgetting about how effective or ineffective the TSA is...i just hate the way they treat people. They have a reputation to up hold, they are everyone's first impression of the US and...given the USA's global reputation today, they could really do with some advice from Rackspace on how to deal with customers. EDIT: Fixing my spelling of "planes" :-(

danilocampos 15y ago
If you think all of that is bad, imagine how it feels getting the exact same treatment as someone who helps fund the salaries of these assholes. For you, it's simple hostility. For Americans, it's a simple betrayal by our government.
- verelo 15y ago
  Haha dont stress, i'm equally upset when i review the taxes and fees on my plane ticket...i too am funding the fun times!
Darkstar 15y ago
Ah, but there's one fatal flaw in your logic. The problem is that we're NOT the TSA's customers. The TSA answers only to the Department of Homeland Security, which answers to nobody. See, the TSA is meant to protect us but cannot be held accountable by the people it protects. If they depended on us for their survival (like they claim we depend on them for ours) then you'd see them become much friendlier and much more effective. Really, that's why most (not necessarily all, but the majority) companies provide good customer service. They know how far a bad review or an outspoken customer can go. Speaking out against the TSA gets us nowhere on an individual basis because they lose nothing. We need to make sure our government officials set the TSA straight.
- verelo 15y ago
  Sorry, the TSA disagrees with you. Here is the link to their "Customer service" page http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/index.shtm http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/index.shtm
  - gareim 15y ago
    Having a customer service page is not synonymous with being accountable. The thing is, whether or not we are satisfied with them, we still have to deal with them until the government changes it. So they aren't held directly accountable. Instead, we have to effect change in the government in a way that will then effect change in the TSA. That extra layer makes things much harder.
    - verelo 15y ago
      You know, i totally agree...i just ask myself "would it hurt if they were friendly" and i don't see why not. They are citizen facing, treat others as you would like to be treated. It just feels like common sense to me.
      - GoodIntentions 15y ago
        /agree. It doesn't cost anything to _not_ be an asshole.
jambo 15y ago
There are actually two groups you don't like: the ones who greet you when you enter the USA are Customs & Border Protection agents. They have a lot of power. The TSA employees are the folks in blue shirts who screen you &/ frisk you once you're inside the US & trying to fly. As an always-clean-shaven-when-flying US citizen, I have never had the displeasure of being treated poorly by CBP, though I know (and regret) it's par for the course for non-citizens.
- ericdykstra 15y ago
  I've been harassed for 15 minutes straight by CBP as a clean, white, male US citizen. I can't imagine what it's like for people who don't fit that description.
- smsm42 15y ago
  I am not a citizen, but I crossed into the US many times, and never had any trouble with CBP. But I know they do have a lot of power and I can totally believe some of them can't deal with it, especially when suitably provoked or think they are. Unfortunately it is very hard to estimate the extent of the problem based on third-party anecdotal evidence.
  - HalibetLector 15y ago
    There is no consistency across border crossing sites. I spent most of my life living on the Ontario/NY border and I can say for sure that I've never had a problem at the border crossing at the Thousand Islands Bridge. Everybody there, from both sides, are nice and polite. The Niagara Falls crossing is a decidedly worse experience.
jeremyarussell 15y ago
I've never flown before, except my grandfather has his own plane, but that's way different i'm sure. I feel bad as an American to know that they are being ridiculously rude and invading privacy like that. (Also I get what you mean about the finger printing.)
dawson 15y ago
Just to balance things, I just returned (literally an hour ago) from SF, having flown in to SF for a week, then to Seattle and back to SF before flying back to the UK, and the TSA were all very welcoming, greeted me and made conversations, jokes and all engaged in a very pleasant manner. I was very impressed!
- einhverfr 15y ago
  In SF, I believe they are private screeners. In SEA, they are unbelievably friendly and professional. Same goes for customs enforcement btw. Plus there is nothing to make you feel safe than having security that is obviously more competent than average, however low a bar that may be!
joering2 15y ago
hahaha, love how you throw Rackspace at the end (I deal with them everyday and can say they are top notch!) I hate TSA as much as I do. I hate them more because I can imagine how this show will look in the future (further on this one) > They are not friendly, have a real attitude problem and treat you as if you are guilty before proven innocent I think this is one of those places where presumption of being guilty should proceed the one of being innocent. Otherwise, would you really care that now its about the time to point a finger that this guy is guilty [for planting a bomb] where your eardrums exploded from sudden cabin decompression and you free-falling into the ocean? If you been watching the terrorism scare-show in US for a while now, you would easily came up with impression its a money show and nothing more than that. You throw some drugged loser on a plane [under CIA agents supervision] and he "fails" to detonate his bomb, then TSA asks for more money to "tighten up" security while boarders are wide open. I found this particularly disgusting: "Michael Chertoff has been an advocate of enhanced technologies, such as full body scanners. It is important to note that his consulting firm Chertoff Group (founded 2009) represents manufacturers of the scanners" [1]. +300MM "market" paid off by taxpayers money. Still his 300MM is a drop in the ocean comparing with privately owned military complex. The sad truth is, that noone in their sound mind would assume things will get better and security will loosen up. It won't. Based on the past, one could assume the following: - some idiot will hide explosives inside his rectum, - some other idiot will construct powerful enough bomb but small enough to hide in his cavities. So, after we spend $300MM on all those scanners, next turn will come to spend another $300 on upgraded version that can shoot x-rays through your ass and teeth. Otherwise, those nasty terrorists will get us. It won't happen tomorrow or next year, but next 5-15 years will make today travel look like a breeze. [1] wikipedia + http://gawker.com/5437499/why-is-michael-chertoff-so-excited-about-full+body-scanners http://gawker.com/5437499/why-is-michael-chertoff-so-excited...
- mikeash 15y ago
  "I think this is one of those places where presumption of being guilty should proceed the one of being innocent. Otherwise, would you really care that now its about the time to point a finger that this guy is guilty [for planting a bomb] where your eardrums exploded from sudden cabin decompression and you free-falling into the ocean?" You don't get to toss out innocent before proven guilty just because you come up with a particularly uncomfortable way to die. The risk of dying from terrorism in the US, with or without the TSA, is incredibly low. It could get ten or a hundred times worse and still not be noticeable next to the ~40,000 road fatalities in this country every year. Why is terrorism so special that it causes people to want to do anything and everything to stop it, while they don't even bat an eye at things that are far more dangerous?
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- verelo 15y ago
  I appreciate your assumption that Americans are everywhere and impossible to avoid, but it wasn't the case for me. I'm Australian, my first ever encounter with an American in real life (aka not CNN or the Simpsons) was during a flight from Sydney Australia to LAX in 2005. The 30 second interruption you referenced was not the case for me, i was held up for about 20 minutes while they searched my everything and quizzed me on why I was in the US (I was in transit headed to Canada) These days i travel regularly, as I mentioned and you pointed out. At that time (in 2005) i had never had the pleasure of talking to a TSA guard, nor any American for any more than 30 seconds. I've been Star Alliance Gold (blah blah blah...) for several years now, but it doesn't change the fact that my first ever face to face conversation with an American was in 2005 at LAX airport. It wasn't fun, i felt a bit frustrated at the end...what more can i say? I'm an honest person, i was new to international travel...they treated me like i had something to hide (which made me feel like i actually did have something to hide) I don't think all Americans are like TSA guards (like i said that was an unfair impression from that 20 minute encounter during that first time in the US) and clearly you don't either. I have had good encounters with the TSA here and there, even one who smiled once...but clearly the up votes tell a story that I'm not going to try re-create in this block of text.
  - mahmud 15y ago
    As an American, I found Australian security professionals just that: professionals. What a bliss to work and interact with. The average Aussie street cop has better manners than an American maître d'. I really love this country: far superior culture.
  - X-Istence 15y ago
    The Aussie border guys are awesome! I went there with my family and they were friendly, joking with us and in general were absolutely awesome. American border guys are hardass assholes. I just can't stand how they make me feel bad for coming back home (green card holder working in America at a startup) from my vacation. It is frustrating.
smsm42 15y ago
Actually, it is a fact that as a visitor you have almost no rights towards US border agents. Well, of course they could not murder you or anything like that, but they can search any of your belongings and your person without any reason and any suspicion of actual crime, can refuse your entry on their sole discretion, can detain you if something looks wrong to them, etc. etc. I'm pretty sure though it's the same in other countries. And why would TSA agents care about TSA reputation? They are just a hired clerks, and their pay is not that spectacular, and they get very little respect for what they are doing, and for many of them that job is just a step towards a better federal job. I'm not saying that to justify them - it was their choice to go for this job and stay on it - but it is what it is. TSA is a bunch of semi-professional clerks following instructions which they by now must know do not really contribute much to anything and they by now must also know many of the people they meet on the job every day are either disgusted by what they are doing or consider them useless and annoying. It's very hard to be happy doing such job, and even harder to find as many people as needed to do it and be happy about it. So no wonder you meet some unhappy ones, it's a natural consequence of TSA being TSA.
- einhverfr 15y ago
  I was discussing the congressional report with my TSA agent friend. My reading is that while it makes some good points, it is overly partisan and ultimately shows Congress fails to grasp the necessity for a systematic view of airport security. This agent and I have argue many, many times about AIT machines ets and I think was surprised to see me sticking to my guns on that issue while noting that the report largely as off the wall. I am worried about the growth of DHS, but until Congress gets realistic, they are the problem and that goes for both parties.
justlearning 15y ago
Might I join your frustration team? (I am also not an American) Which country in the world has something called as "Federal Inspection"; it's not "immigration", it's "federal inspection". By the mere wording, it sounds like I am walking into a prison. I have traveled good handful places and most places are frightening friendly - I carry the paranoia of TSA/Immigration to all these international places and get surprised always. The only one friendly experience I've had in the last 8 years was in ABQ, where this friendly TSA agent 'inquired' in a very friendly way. I somehow felt respected, which got me thinking if there was something to it - are they going to get me telling something irrelevant and make a case. That's the paranoia that the TSA/Immigration has trained my brain from the past years.
mbell 15y ago
Short of the finger printing they do about the same to Americans returning home. I went to Oktoberfest in Munich several years ago and couldn't believe how easy it was to leave, how easy it was to enter German (they were very nice, took 5 minutes tops), and how much of a pain it was to get back into the US. Apparently 2 mid 20's males returning from Oktoberfest was suspicious and required 20 minutes of backpack searching and questions (not an interrogation by any stretch but still annoying).
- WettowelReactor 15y ago
  IANAL but I do not believe you have to answer any questions about your travels as a citizen re-entering the country. It probably worth your while to avoid lengthy delays but they cant deny a U.S. citizen entry into the U.S.
gcb 15y ago
Forgot: they fuck up your luggage. even at fascist regimens they would have the decency of opening the bags in front of you and not spilling powders all over your stuff
alalonde 15y ago
The lack of courtesy is due to the sheer antagonism which comes with the job. I dislike flying as much as the next guy, but I can't help but feel bad for the grunts carrying out such an unwelcome job. Distrust breeds contempt which makes the whole experience worse for everyone.

by verelo 15y ago

danilocampos 15y ago

If you think all of that is bad, imagine how it feels getting the exact same treatment as someone who helps fund the salaries of these assholes. For you, it's simple hostility. For Americans, it's a simple betrayal by our government.

verelo 15y ago
Haha dont stress, i'm equally upset when i review the taxes and fees on my plane ticket...i too am funding the fun times!

Darkstar 15y ago

Ah, but there's one fatal flaw in your logic. The problem is that we're NOT the TSA's customers. The TSA answers only to the Department of Homeland Security, which answers to nobody. See, the TSA is meant to protect us but cannot be held accountable by the people it protects. If they depended on us for their survival (like they claim we depend on them for ours) then you'd see them become much friendlier and much more effective. Really, that's why most (not necessarily all, but the majority) companies provide good customer service. They know how far a bad review or an outspoken customer can go. Speaking out against the TSA gets us nowhere on an individual basis because they lose nothing. We need to make sure our government officials set the TSA straight.

verelo 15y ago
Sorry, the TSA disagrees with you. Here is the link to their "Customer service" page http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/index.shtm http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/index.shtm
- gareim 15y ago
  Having a customer service page is not synonymous with being accountable. The thing is, whether or not we are satisfied with them, we still have to deal with them until the government changes it. So they aren't held directly accountable. Instead, we have to effect change in the government in a way that will then effect change in the TSA. That extra layer makes things much harder.
  - verelo 15y ago
    You know, i totally agree...i just ask myself "would it hurt if they were friendly" and i don't see why not. They are citizen facing, treat others as you would like to be treated. It just feels like common sense to me.
    - GoodIntentions 15y ago
      /agree. It doesn't cost anything to _not_ be an asshole.

jambo 15y ago

There are actually two groups you don't like: the ones who greet you when you enter the USA are Customs & Border Protection agents. They have a lot of power. The TSA employees are the folks in blue shirts who screen you &/ frisk you once you're inside the US & trying to fly. As an always-clean-shaven-when-flying US citizen, I have never had the displeasure of being treated poorly by CBP, though I know (and regret) it's par for the course for non-citizens.

ericdykstra 15y ago
I've been harassed for 15 minutes straight by CBP as a clean, white, male US citizen. I can't imagine what it's like for people who don't fit that description.
smsm42 15y ago
I am not a citizen, but I crossed into the US many times, and never had any trouble with CBP. But I know they do have a lot of power and I can totally believe some of them can't deal with it, especially when suitably provoked or think they are. Unfortunately it is very hard to estimate the extent of the problem based on third-party anecdotal evidence.
- HalibetLector 15y ago
  There is no consistency across border crossing sites. I spent most of my life living on the Ontario/NY border and I can say for sure that I've never had a problem at the border crossing at the Thousand Islands Bridge. Everybody there, from both sides, are nice and polite. The Niagara Falls crossing is a decidedly worse experience.

jeremyarussell 15y ago

I've never flown before, except my grandfather has his own plane, but that's way different i'm sure. I feel bad as an American to know that they are being ridiculously rude and invading privacy like that. (Also I get what you mean about the finger printing.)

dawson 15y ago

Just to balance things, I just returned (literally an hour ago) from SF, having flown in to SF for a week, then to Seattle and back to SF before flying back to the UK, and the TSA were all very welcoming, greeted me and made conversations, jokes and all engaged in a very pleasant manner. I was very impressed!

einhverfr 15y ago
In SF, I believe they are private screeners. In SEA, they are unbelievably friendly and professional. Same goes for customs enforcement btw. Plus there is nothing to make you feel safe than having security that is obviously more competent than average, however low a bar that may be!

joering2 15y ago

hahaha, love how you throw Rackspace at the end (I deal with them everyday and can say they are top notch!) I hate TSA as much as I do. I hate them more because I can imagine how this show will look in the future (further on this one) > They are not friendly, have a real attitude problem and treat you as if you are guilty before proven innocent I think this is one of those places where presumption of being guilty should proceed the one of being innocent. Otherwise, would you really care that now its about the time to point a finger that this guy is guilty [for planting a bomb] where your eardrums exploded from sudden cabin decompression and you free-falling into the ocean? If you been watching the terrorism scare-show in US for a while now, you would easily came up with impression its a money show and nothing more than that. You throw some drugged loser on a plane [under CIA agents supervision] and he "fails" to detonate his bomb, then TSA asks for more money to "tighten up" security while boarders are wide open. I found this particularly disgusting: "Michael Chertoff has been an advocate of enhanced technologies, such as full body scanners. It is important to note that his consulting firm Chertoff Group (founded 2009) represents manufacturers of the scanners" [1]. +300MM "market" paid off by taxpayers money. Still his 300MM is a drop in the ocean comparing with privately owned military complex. The sad truth is, that noone in their sound mind would assume things will get better and security will loosen up. It won't. Based on the past, one could assume the following: - some idiot will hide explosives inside his rectum, - some other idiot will construct powerful enough bomb but small enough to hide in his cavities. So, after we spend $300MM on all those scanners, next turn will come to spend another $300 on upgraded version that can shoot x-rays through your ass and teeth. Otherwise, those nasty terrorists will get us. It won't happen tomorrow or next year, but next 5-15 years will make today travel look like a breeze. [1] wikipedia + http://gawker.com/5437499/why-is-michael-chertoff-so-excited-about-full+body-scanners http://gawker.com/5437499/why-is-michael-chertoff-so-excited...

mikeash 15y ago
"I think this is one of those places where presumption of being guilty should proceed the one of being innocent. Otherwise, would you really care that now its about the time to point a finger that this guy is guilty [for planting a bomb] where your eardrums exploded from sudden cabin decompression and you free-falling into the ocean?" You don't get to toss out innocent before proven guilty just because you come up with a particularly uncomfortable way to die. The risk of dying from terrorism in the US, with or without the TSA, is incredibly low. It could get ten or a hundred times worse and still not be noticeable next to the ~40,000 road fatalities in this country every year. Why is terrorism so special that it causes people to want to do anything and everything to stop it, while they don't even bat an eye at things that are far more dangerous?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

verelo 15y ago
I appreciate your assumption that Americans are everywhere and impossible to avoid, but it wasn't the case for me. I'm Australian, my first ever encounter with an American in real life (aka not CNN or the Simpsons) was during a flight from Sydney Australia to LAX in 2005. The 30 second interruption you referenced was not the case for me, i was held up for about 20 minutes while they searched my everything and quizzed me on why I was in the US (I was in transit headed to Canada) These days i travel regularly, as I mentioned and you pointed out. At that time (in 2005) i had never had the pleasure of talking to a TSA guard, nor any American for any more than 30 seconds. I've been Star Alliance Gold (blah blah blah...) for several years now, but it doesn't change the fact that my first ever face to face conversation with an American was in 2005 at LAX airport. It wasn't fun, i felt a bit frustrated at the end...what more can i say? I'm an honest person, i was new to international travel...they treated me like i had something to hide (which made me feel like i actually did have something to hide) I don't think all Americans are like TSA guards (like i said that was an unfair impression from that 20 minute encounter during that first time in the US) and clearly you don't either. I have had good encounters with the TSA here and there, even one who smiled once...but clearly the up votes tell a story that I'm not going to try re-create in this block of text.
- mahmud 15y ago
  As an American, I found Australian security professionals just that: professionals. What a bliss to work and interact with. The average Aussie street cop has better manners than an American maître d'. I really love this country: far superior culture.
- X-Istence 15y ago
  The Aussie border guys are awesome! I went there with my family and they were friendly, joking with us and in general were absolutely awesome. American border guys are hardass assholes. I just can't stand how they make me feel bad for coming back home (green card holder working in America at a startup) from my vacation. It is frustrating.

smsm42 15y ago

Actually, it is a fact that as a visitor you have almost no rights towards US border agents. Well, of course they could not murder you or anything like that, but they can search any of your belongings and your person without any reason and any suspicion of actual crime, can refuse your entry on their sole discretion, can detain you if something looks wrong to them, etc. etc. I'm pretty sure though it's the same in other countries. And why would TSA agents care about TSA reputation? They are just a hired clerks, and their pay is not that spectacular, and they get very little respect for what they are doing, and for many of them that job is just a step towards a better federal job. I'm not saying that to justify them - it was their choice to go for this job and stay on it - but it is what it is. TSA is a bunch of semi-professional clerks following instructions which they by now must know do not really contribute much to anything and they by now must also know many of the people they meet on the job every day are either disgusted by what they are doing or consider them useless and annoying. It's very hard to be happy doing such job, and even harder to find as many people as needed to do it and be happy about it. So no wonder you meet some unhappy ones, it's a natural consequence of TSA being TSA.

einhverfr 15y ago
I was discussing the congressional report with my TSA agent friend. My reading is that while it makes some good points, it is overly partisan and ultimately shows Congress fails to grasp the necessity for a systematic view of airport security. This agent and I have argue many, many times about AIT machines ets and I think was surprised to see me sticking to my guns on that issue while noting that the report largely as off the wall. I am worried about the growth of DHS, but until Congress gets realistic, they are the problem and that goes for both parties.

justlearning 15y ago

Might I join your frustration team? (I am also not an American) Which country in the world has something called as "Federal Inspection"; it's not "immigration", it's "federal inspection". By the mere wording, it sounds like I am walking into a prison. I have traveled good handful places and most places are frightening friendly - I carry the paranoia of TSA/Immigration to all these international places and get surprised always. The only one friendly experience I've had in the last 8 years was in ABQ, where this friendly TSA agent 'inquired' in a very friendly way. I somehow felt respected, which got me thinking if there was something to it - are they going to get me telling something irrelevant and make a case. That's the paranoia that the TSA/Immigration has trained my brain from the past years.

mbell 15y ago

Short of the finger printing they do about the same to Americans returning home. I went to Oktoberfest in Munich several years ago and couldn't believe how easy it was to leave, how easy it was to enter German (they were very nice, took 5 minutes tops), and how much of a pain it was to get back into the US. Apparently 2 mid 20's males returning from Oktoberfest was suspicious and required 20 minutes of backpack searching and questions (not an interrogation by any stretch but still annoying).

WettowelReactor 15y ago
IANAL but I do not believe you have to answer any questions about your travels as a citizen re-entering the country. It probably worth your while to avoid lengthy delays but they cant deny a U.S. citizen entry into the U.S.

gcb 15y ago

Forgot: they fuck up your luggage. even at fascist regimens they would have the decency of opening the bags in front of you and not spilling powders all over your stuff

alalonde 15y ago

The lack of courtesy is due to the sheer antagonism which comes with the job. I dislike flying as much as the next guy, but I can't help but feel bad for the grunts carrying out such an unwelcome job. Distrust breeds contempt which makes the whole experience worse for everyone.