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I’ll respectfully turn down the offer of drinking responsibly for any amount of time. The best medically grounded advice at this point is that the most responsi

I’ll respectfully turn down the offer of drinking responsibly for any amount of time. The best medically grounded advice at this point is that the most responsible amount of alcohol to drink is zero. If you can. But then that goes to sugar as well. But I’m already used to sugar so that’s a hard sell for me, just as I assume it’ll be a hard sell to ask you to go sober. Which I won’t suggest either. If you already drink and like it, sure the best course is to keep it to a glass or two a week and have fun. As for the “social lubricant” argument: sure people open up more once you pour a bunch of drinks in. I’ll also take your argument that maybe they truly don’t reveal their selves to sober me (I doubt it, I’m generally cooky and have multiple times been asked “are you sure you’re not drunk?”). Also isn’t it interesting that alcohol brings out the worst qualities in many people as well? Almost every single instance of me hearing a friend having something “inappropriate” happen to them, it was in a bar or pub and there most definitely was alcohol involved. Only over the top creeps do inappropriate things when sober. I’d rather not be in a place where the likelihood of creepy shit going down skyrockets and watch a movie instead. But what exactly do you reckon you learn from your friends or colleagues that I don’t get to? I have a good job, which I’ve progressed through quite well, so clearly I didn’t miss out on any inside detail that could have only been gleaned professionally over a drink. I have few friends but from what I hear from many, more meaningful ones than most people. Almost always when I skip a party or pub outing the next time I meet someone they just say “yeah you didn't miss much.” If I’m missing on some secret second life that is only accessible after you sign up to permanently imbuing this drug forever, yeah I’ll pass. Sounds like a cult and it doesn’t matter what orgy or salvation it promises. Sometimes it’s more important to keep your freedom and senses than to experience everything.

distcs 3y ago
[deleted]
- ramraj07 3y ago
  I spent a couple years in college station. The concept of a designated driver did not exist there. I doubt it does in any campus. The main places I’ve found myself around drunk people was in academic conferences and in work outings/happy hours. Well employed, highly educated people. Not unemployed hobos. And a good fraction of them start touching inappropriately. Sure it’s still anecdotal but I didn’t claim to anything but. What non anecdotal data are you looking for? This literally commentary on a letter to an editor in the times.
  - karmakurtisaani 3y ago
    What for you seems like inappropriate touching might just be bonding for them. This is what the other commenter meant by bonding better when drunk - what is inappropriate sober suddenly becomes appropriate, and that makes people feel more connected. Nothing wrong with not drinking, but alcohol has its pluses and minuses. I myself barely drink these days due to having small kids and getting the worst hangovers at this age, but I can't imagine I'd be the same person socially if I hadn't had alcohol when I was younger. I would not have had as good discussions with friends, nor met a fraction of the people I did (including of the opposite sex, including my wife). No health problems as a result, maybe I would have been slightly more focused in my studies, but it would hardly have made a difference to where I am now. The gained social skills vastly outweigh the lost study potential.
- mpweiher 3y ago
  > That's just anecdata Er...no. The statistics completely back this up. https://www.ncadd.us/about-addiction/addiction-update/alcohol-drugs-and-crime https://www.ncadd.us/about-addiction/addiction-update/alcoho...
  - distcs 3y ago
    The link you have cited is good. Thanks! But I was responding to this comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490348 That comment had no statistics to back it up. They only presented their own anecdotes and biases.
- jimbo2000 3y ago
  I thought it was pretty widely understood that alcohol results in behavioural changes that increase the risk of violence or "inappropriateness" See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8729263 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8729263
contrarian1234 3y ago
I find your response very perplexing. You make this great analogy with sugar (that's really good! I'll make sure to use it in the future) and then you just kinda.. Dismiss it with a "well I'm already addicted to that" ??? I'd encourage you to take that analogy further and think about - sugar is significantly more addictive. Almost everyone basically craves sweet things regularly. Unless predisposed to alcoholism the vast majority of people do not crave alcohol. If you start to drink and you are thinking about getting a drink when idle at work - then you have an issue and should probably stop. I get the sense from your response that you think this is the default - but I can assure you it's not. At the moment I drink about once every couple of weeks. During the pandemic I was very busy and didn't drink at all. At no point did I "want a drink". Alcoholism is a very serious issue that affect many, but for the vast majority of society this isn't a direct concern (though it seems to affect European countries a lot harder) - sugar is consumed regularly and is vastly worse for your health that a few drinks once a week or something to that effect - sugar has basically no social benefits for you. And basically no longer term benefits. There are no sugar orgies I'm sorry to say. It just momentarily makes you a bit happier You can continue to not drink and life will pass you by. If you're in an alcohol consuming society you will just make fewer connections with people, make fewer friends and fall in love less. But it's doable. I think back on all my close friends - and if I didn't drink EVER I think I'd estimate I'd have 30-50% fewer friends. It's not the end of the world - but it's a significant difference. Most people are shy and take time to open up (myself included). Maybe you connect a bit, but then life makes you sail-by. I now live in a society where people drink a lot less and I constantly make acquaintances that just don't stick. A night out with some drinks doesn't fix everything, but it definitely gives people a chance to connect in a way that's much harder organically. You could argue that "real" "true" friends will connect regardless - it's probably true.. Like 60% of the time? So you leave 40% on the table My own mental analogy would be like if you insisting everyone reach out to yo by email b/c you're worried about your privacy. Sure you'd still make some friends and still have a life.. But most people won't even bother - and they'll have their orgies on Facebook without you

distcs 3y ago

[deleted]

ramraj07 3y ago
I spent a couple years in college station. The concept of a designated driver did not exist there. I doubt it does in any campus. The main places I’ve found myself around drunk people was in academic conferences and in work outings/happy hours. Well employed, highly educated people. Not unemployed hobos. And a good fraction of them start touching inappropriately. Sure it’s still anecdotal but I didn’t claim to anything but. What non anecdotal data are you looking for? This literally commentary on a letter to an editor in the times.
- karmakurtisaani 3y ago
  What for you seems like inappropriate touching might just be bonding for them. This is what the other commenter meant by bonding better when drunk - what is inappropriate sober suddenly becomes appropriate, and that makes people feel more connected. Nothing wrong with not drinking, but alcohol has its pluses and minuses. I myself barely drink these days due to having small kids and getting the worst hangovers at this age, but I can't imagine I'd be the same person socially if I hadn't had alcohol when I was younger. I would not have had as good discussions with friends, nor met a fraction of the people I did (including of the opposite sex, including my wife). No health problems as a result, maybe I would have been slightly more focused in my studies, but it would hardly have made a difference to where I am now. The gained social skills vastly outweigh the lost study potential.
mpweiher 3y ago
> That's just anecdata Er...no. The statistics completely back this up. https://www.ncadd.us/about-addiction/addiction-update/alcohol-drugs-and-crime https://www.ncadd.us/about-addiction/addiction-update/alcoho...
- distcs 3y ago
  The link you have cited is good. Thanks! But I was responding to this comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490348 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490348 That comment had no statistics to back it up. They only presented their own anecdotes and biases.
jimbo2000 3y ago
I thought it was pretty widely understood that alcohol results in behavioural changes that increase the risk of violence or "inappropriateness" See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8729263 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8729263

contrarian1234 3y ago

I find your response very perplexing. You make this great analogy with sugar (that's really good! I'll make sure to use it in the future) and then you just kinda.. Dismiss it with a "well I'm already addicted to that" ??? I'd encourage you to take that analogy further and think about - sugar is significantly more addictive. Almost everyone basically craves sweet things regularly. Unless predisposed to alcoholism the vast majority of people do not crave alcohol. If you start to drink and you are thinking about getting a drink when idle at work - then you have an issue and should probably stop. I get the sense from your response that you think this is the default - but I can assure you it's not. At the moment I drink about once every couple of weeks. During the pandemic I was very busy and didn't drink at all. At no point did I "want a drink". Alcoholism is a very serious issue that affect many, but for the vast majority of society this isn't a direct concern (though it seems to affect European countries a lot harder) - sugar is consumed regularly and is vastly worse for your health that a few drinks once a week or something to that effect - sugar has basically no social benefits for you. And basically no longer term benefits. There are no sugar orgies I'm sorry to say. It just momentarily makes you a bit happier You can continue to not drink and life will pass you by. If you're in an alcohol consuming society you will just make fewer connections with people, make fewer friends and fall in love less. But it's doable. I think back on all my close friends - and if I didn't drink EVER I think I'd estimate I'd have 30-50% fewer friends. It's not the end of the world - but it's a significant difference. Most people are shy and take time to open up (myself included). Maybe you connect a bit, but then life makes you sail-by. I now live in a society where people drink a lot less and I constantly make acquaintances that just don't stick. A night out with some drinks doesn't fix everything, but it definitely gives people a chance to connect in a way that's much harder organically. You could argue that "real" "true" friends will connect regardless - it's probably true.. Like 60% of the time? So you leave 40% on the table My own mental analogy would be like if you insisting everyone reach out to yo by email b/c you're worried about your privacy. Sure you'd still make some friends and still have a life.. But most people won't even bother - and they'll have their orgies on Facebook without you