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I have never used heroin or other hard drugs. And I do not intent to. So I might have missed out, you say?

leoedin 3y ago
Well, yes, you have missed out. Clearly you're choosing to miss out because you don't think it's worth it - but that doesn't change the fact you're missing out.
episteme 3y ago
I see what you're saying but this only leads to a discussion about the differences between heroin and alcohol, rather than deciding if you can roughly judge alcohol use from the outside.
Tildey 3y ago
You’ll be missing out on some experiences for sure. Would it be a net positive? Probably not. But you really can’t quite comprehend the feelings you’re missing out on. There might be tangential things you don’t experience too, places you’ll never go, and people you’ll never meet. -Someone who has experienced “hard” drugs
pfannkuchen 3y ago
Alcohol has been a significant part of many cultures for thousands of years, while heroin most certainly has not (and still is not to this day, aside from a cultural fringe here and there). That seems like a relevant difference?
monsieurbanana 3y ago
If most of the population did heroine and hard drugs to socialize then probably, yeah? I've also never drank besides the occasional cocktail, and I can count on my hands the number of times I've bent to a bar. I had other kind of experiences instead and I wouldn't change it, but of course I've missed out on certain things.
- mantas 3y ago
  „Most of population did“ is not exactly a good meter wether something is good or bad. „Most of population did“ quite a few things that didn't turn out that well.
  - monsieurbanana 3y ago
    We're talking about "missing out", not about something being a net positive or a net negative. But also that was just to point out that IMO the analogy with hard drugs doesn't work, I don't want to debate about a hypothetical world where most people do hard drugs.
    - mantas 3y ago
      „Missing out“ does have a cultural weight of being net positive. Nobody says he just missed out on crashing into a tree on a windy road.
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      That world is not hypothetical: there's a debate whether we should differentiate between "soft" and "hard" drugs (because we might be encouraging people to use the soft ones by doing so), but one thing is for sure: alcohol is a "hard" drug, same as heroin.
brnt 3y ago
Quite literally you have missed out, yes. The question is: is that a problem? I generally don't suffer from FOMO, and any current science on alcohol (which the WHO basically classifies as hard drug, it's just one that's culturally accepted in many places) is pointing towards the safe dose being 0. I unfortunately come from a culture where alcohol consumption is accepted, so it's been harder than I would like to break with tradition in the face of science, but doing so it a good thing, and if your cultural background helps you a hand because it does not accept alcohol as readily as mine, more power to you. Drugs FOMO is some of the stupidest FOMO around. I've nothing against using soft drugs, but making any drug part of your life style is almost certainly a bad idea, and if never even trying suits your personality type (some are just more easily addicted than others), then you are wise for steering clear, not an ignorant traditionalist (or at least, not necessarily so). That does not mean gathering in third places is problematic, I do wish we could come up with ways of doing it without the expectation of the consumption of alcohol.
- cm2187 3y ago
  The only safe speed on a car is also 0.
  - developer93 3y ago
    I don't think that takes away from their point
    - cm2187 3y ago
      It means you accept some risk if you get some utility. You can justify anything with a zero risk policy.
  - vincnetas 3y ago
    But we accept risk because of benefits a car moving faster than 0 brings. I might say same about some of psychedelic drugs. At least from my personal experience.
  - cassonmars 3y ago
atoav 3y ago
Do you consider the adicitiveness of alcohol to be the same as that of heroin?
- icameron 3y ago
  I was surprised to learn that alcohol withdrawal can be fatal, unlike heroin, which is incredibly uncomfortable but not fatal.
rootsudo 3y ago
There is a community around drug users, especially the type they select to use. So - while that decision tree never happens to you, to some people, invested in the community and such would say yes. That's the beauty of life. You write your own adventure. Whether people know it or not... eh.
Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
You do miss out, but of course the value of what you miss out is nothing compared to the devastating consequences to their life that practically everyone using heroin experience. On the other hand, many people drink alcohol and live perfectly normal lives. So I don't think that's an informative comparison.
emptyfile 3y ago
[dead]

Well, yes, you have missed out. Clearly you're choosing to miss out because you don't think it's worth it - but that doesn't change the fact you're missing out.

episteme 3y ago

I see what you're saying but this only leads to a discussion about the differences between heroin and alcohol, rather than deciding if you can roughly judge alcohol use from the outside.

Tildey 3y ago

You’ll be missing out on some experiences for sure. Would it be a net positive? Probably not. But you really can’t quite comprehend the feelings you’re missing out on. There might be tangential things you don’t experience too, places you’ll never go, and people you’ll never meet. -Someone who has experienced “hard” drugs

pfannkuchen 3y ago

Alcohol has been a significant part of many cultures for thousands of years, while heroin most certainly has not (and still is not to this day, aside from a cultural fringe here and there). That seems like a relevant difference?

monsieurbanana 3y ago

If most of the population did heroine and hard drugs to socialize then probably, yeah? I've also never drank besides the occasional cocktail, and I can count on my hands the number of times I've bent to a bar. I had other kind of experiences instead and I wouldn't change it, but of course I've missed out on certain things.

mantas 3y ago
„Most of population did“ is not exactly a good meter wether something is good or bad. „Most of population did“ quite a few things that didn't turn out that well.
- monsieurbanana 3y ago
  We're talking about "missing out", not about something being a net positive or a net negative. But also that was just to point out that IMO the analogy with hard drugs doesn't work, I don't want to debate about a hypothetical world where most people do hard drugs.
  - mantas 3y ago
    „Missing out“ does have a cultural weight of being net positive. Nobody says he just missed out on crashing into a tree on a windy road.
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    That world is not hypothetical: there's a debate whether we should differentiate between "soft" and "hard" drugs (because we might be encouraging people to use the soft ones by doing so), but one thing is for sure: alcohol is a "hard" drug, same as heroin.

brnt 3y ago

Quite literally you have missed out, yes. The question is: is that a problem? I generally don't suffer from FOMO, and any current science on alcohol (which the WHO basically classifies as hard drug, it's just one that's culturally accepted in many places) is pointing towards the safe dose being 0. I unfortunately come from a culture where alcohol consumption is accepted, so it's been harder than I would like to break with tradition in the face of science, but doing so it a good thing, and if your cultural background helps you a hand because it does not accept alcohol as readily as mine, more power to you. Drugs FOMO is some of the stupidest FOMO around. I've nothing against using soft drugs, but making any drug part of your life style is almost certainly a bad idea, and if never even trying suits your personality type (some are just more easily addicted than others), then you are wise for steering clear, not an ignorant traditionalist (or at least, not necessarily so). That does not mean gathering in third places is problematic, I do wish we could come up with ways of doing it without the expectation of the consumption of alcohol.

cm2187 3y ago
The only safe speed on a car is also 0.
- developer93 3y ago
  I don't think that takes away from their point
  - cm2187 3y ago
    It means you accept some risk if you get some utility. You can justify anything with a zero risk policy.
- vincnetas 3y ago
  But we accept risk because of benefits a car moving faster than 0 brings. I might say same about some of psychedelic drugs. At least from my personal experience.
- cassonmars 3y ago

atoav 3y ago

Do you consider the adicitiveness of alcohol to be the same as that of heroin?

icameron 3y ago
I was surprised to learn that alcohol withdrawal can be fatal, unlike heroin, which is incredibly uncomfortable but not fatal.

rootsudo 3y ago

There is a community around drug users, especially the type they select to use. So - while that decision tree never happens to you, to some people, invested in the community and such would say yes. That's the beauty of life. You write your own adventure. Whether people know it or not... eh.

Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago

You do miss out, but of course the value of what you miss out is nothing compared to the devastating consequences to their life that practically everyone using heroin experience. On the other hand, many people drink alcohol and live perfectly normal lives. So I don't think that's an informative comparison.

emptyfile 3y ago

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