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A solution is to stop revolving your life around alcohol. I was blessed with an upbringing in a family and culture that didn’t show alcohol and I suddenly found

• sideshowb 3y ago
  Interesting perspective! On a light note, ... You don't own any pants or shoes at all?
  • ramraj07 3y ago
    Ha ha slowly it came to that yes. I own one pair of Levi jeans (my waist fluctuates too much and my social calendar demands none of it so I just don’t keep more than one) which I rarely use (tropical country now). Only gym and running shoes, I’m a sandals guy. Of course this changes when I’m in New York in winter but I still just have boots and that same single pair of jeans I suppose.
    • thorin 3y ago
      That's exactly what I'd wear to a pub, bar, restaurant or cafe so not sure why you'd think that would be an issue. Even most nightclubs don't bother about dress codes much these days.
      • ramraj07 3y ago
        I’ve been turned away twice in my life for not wearing shoes, and once for not wearing pants. So thats something?
        • explaininjs 3y ago
          The clothes are the legally justified excuse, really they’re going by their impression of you.
    • sideshowb 3y ago
      Well I don't know New York but in a proper pub they will be fine with whatever trousers and shoes you have. For that matter I once walked into a country pub (not one where they know me) in only wet swimming trunks and we persuaded them to serve us on credit.
    • deleted 3y ago
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• beepbopboopp 3y ago
  How on earth can you claim to feel like you havent missed out on much when youve never tried it. What you're describing is more akin to growing up in your parents religion than making a personal choice.
  • ThrowMeABC 3y ago
    I have never used heroin or other hard drugs. And I do not intent to. So I might have missed out, you say?
    • leoedin 3y ago
      Well, yes, you have missed out. Clearly you're choosing to miss out because you don't think it's worth it - but that doesn't change the fact you're missing out.
    • episteme 3y ago
      I see what you're saying but this only leads to a discussion about the differences between heroin and alcohol, rather than deciding if you can roughly judge alcohol use from the outside.
    • Tildey 3y ago
      You’ll be missing out on some experiences for sure. Would it be a net positive? Probably not. But you really can’t quite comprehend the feelings you’re missing out on. There might be tangential things you don’t experience too, places you’ll never go, and people you’ll never meet. -Someone who has experienced “hard” drugs
    • pfannkuchen 3y ago
      Alcohol has been a significant part of many cultures for thousands of years, while heroin most certainly has not (and still is not to this day, aside from a cultural fringe here and there). That seems like a relevant difference?
    • monsieurbanana 3y ago
      If most of the population did heroine and hard drugs to socialize then probably, yeah? I've also never drank besides the occasional cocktail, and I can count on my hands the number of times I've bent to a bar. I had other kind of experiences instead and I wouldn't change it, but of course I've missed out on certain things.
• NovaDudely 3y ago
  I have had my fair share of drinks over the years but it never took over my life, it is a nice middle ground of it is there but not a key feature. That said, you having never had a sip. Right on! Each to their own path and I completely get why some folks never try it. Just doesn't interest them and you cannot miss what you never had I guess.
  • jack_pp 3y ago
    I've been drunk, had a couple of beers and tried pretty much the whole spectrum of alcohol consumption and honestly I've never been a fan. It makes you stupider, less able to control your actions, your emotions and your thoughts. That allows for fights, hooking up randomly which isn't good for anybody and even makes people dependent on it in order to have sex. It basically makes you more like an animal and less like a human. People like it because they don't like being human, it's hard to have fun as a human, much easier to let go of your higher functions and behave on autopilot then blame it on whatever substance they're on for whatever stupid shit they did.
    • IggleSniggle 3y ago
      There was a period of my life where I felt I required it to work, but not to have fun. It was a programming job, but to get the work done I needed to be stupider and behave on autopilot. I do not recommend this. Dark times, and I am thankfully past this. But anyway, I agree with your premise. People do it to subdue their higher order thinking. If you’ve never wished to do this, then you might just be better suited (or better adapted) to your environment.
• atoav 3y ago
  As someone who grew up in a heavy drinking part of Europe, I never had an issue to meet friends without drinking, e.g. during the day. My fondest memories with them happened both with or without alcohol, that was never the factor. Granted, there are people that you never meet outside of a bar or pub and there are people that always have to get a drink, but that might depend on the circles you are in. Alcohol certainly isn't healthy, and a heavily drunk person is certainly more unpleasant than let's say a heavily stoned one, yet I would not discount the amount of conversations that people dared to have just because they had a glas of wine before. Sure, I'd love people to open up without that glas and sure, some people won't be able to ever open up without it and that's bad, but most people don't overdo it with the alcohol, just like most people don't drink 4 kegs of coffee each day. Whether alcohol is a bad thing over all depends on the amount.
• sgt 3y ago
  That's a valid opinion. Society would probably be much better off without alcohol. Ironically, I say this as someone who occasionally drinks (around 1-2 beers a week, at most). It's not about me, it's about the entire society that revolves around getting drunk. Parents who become entirely different people around their kids. Can't be good.
  • Glawen 3y ago
    there are societies without alcohol, in fact about 2 billions people are not drinking at all, what is better?
    • sgt 3y ago
      And many of those societies have huge issues on their own. Equality for example. But that's not related to alcohol. It's just.. human, I guess.
    • sgt 3y ago
      PS, do you really think muslim countries don't drink? They are in some ways the worst. The sheer amount of alcohol consumed by locals in places like Saudi Arabia, for example.
    • nottorp 3y ago
      Yeah, right. There is no contraband alcohol in muslim countries. Definitely.
• ahahahahah 3y ago
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• contrarian1234 3y ago
  You're not making an informed choice and reveling in your own ignorance I used to think the same, and then I started to drink socially and saw 1. all the things I had been just quietly not been invited to previously 2. the social lubricant aspect of alcohol that I didn't appreciate till I experienced it. This is not just the physiological aspect , this is the social effect as well which can't be replicated sober (see freshmen college students getting "drunk" on alcohol-free beer). Its difficult to articulate, but the excuse of inebriation creates a "safe space" to let loose in a sense. For instance, if you make an offcolor joke sober people may find it very funny , but they'll also think you maybe lack manners or don't know what's appropriate "She's funny, but kinda low EQ". If you are inebriated (or even pretending to be) then you are safe from judgment up to a point. This opens a lot of doors, and opportunities to bond with people. Bc of the judgment aspect, no one likes to drink with someone sober - so you're just not seeing it for the most part I had another analogous experience. All through high school and college I didn't use Facebook. In the last year of college I relented - suddenly I was being invited to stuff left and right. You don't know what you don't know. Dogmatic beliefs not grounded in experience aren't worth much Try drinking (responsibily) for a couple of years and then come back making your proclamations. There are very few people that have actively tried both lifestyles and chosen to be a teetotaler. When that does happen , it's generally because of issues of self control, a predisposition to alcoholism or bc they tried it a few times and never got used to it
  • Aerbil313 3y ago
    > Try drinking (responsibily) for a couple of years Active preaching of alcohol, this is the dumbest advice I’ve ever heard, maybe just after some people preaching for pornography. A drunk you is objectively not any better than a sober one, rather far worse. You have one life, don’t waste it.
    • kome 3y ago
      i would be very surprised if you are European... this very puritan approach to alcohol and life feel SO american.
• HellDunkel 3y ago
  I hardly drink anything these days and have been drinking very rarely for the last 10 years. In my 20ies i drank way too much, although never alone. After all, i think your approach is better. Yes, you have probably missed out on some things. For me that would have been parties and music happenings i would not want to miss. But who knows what else i would have done had i just skipped that phase of my life.
• Aerbil313 3y ago
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  • andybak 3y ago
    There's a really fantastic bar scene in Istanbul. Of the other muslim countries I've been to (Morocco, Malaysia, Egypt) I had no problems getting a drink anywhere and I saw locals drinking in each one.
    • Aerbil313 3y ago
      There are indeed less and more religious local places. I'm in a more religious one. Btw you can always get a drink in Muslim countries if you're not Muslim, as per the Sharia.
      • andybak 3y ago
        Doesn't that rather weaken your original claim? "Prohibition is possible but it will be rather unevenly distributed"
        • Aerbil313 3y ago
          No. Sorry if my original claim is unclear. Prohibition is for Muslims and do work for them. There is no prohibition for non-muslims in sharia.
          • andybak 3y ago
            Yes and my point was that a hell of a lot of Muslims seem to enjoy a drink from what I've observed.
            • Aerbil313 3y ago
              We don’t have Sharia in Turkey and for countries that implement it, there’s leftover corruption and puppet govts from colonial era whose best interest is not exactly fully implementing Sharia. Those who do it (e.g. Afghanistan) are immediately sanctioned to poverty. There is 2+ billion muslims in the world and not everyone is religious. If we had Sharia here (we’re working towards it) those muslims would be subject to and benefit from the prohibition. We’re returning to the pre-colonial days of Islam though, see an analysis: https://muslimskeptic.com/2023/04/12/finally-admit-youth-religious/ https://muslimskeptic.com/2023/04/12/finally-admit-youth-rel...
• rocketbop 3y ago
  > Heck, I don’t even own pants or shoes worthy of wearing to a pub if I needed to. I wonder if your idea of what going to a bar is has been coloured by TV, movies etc. It doesn’t have to be glamorous. Most bars do not have a dress code. I don’t usually dress differently to go for a beer than I do when I am working. Interesting perspective, but I think it’s a little conceited to claim you haven’t missed out on anything because you have deeper conversations with people during the day. I do agree that it’s an awful drug with terrible health consequences. Living the healthiest life possible as often as possible is not necessarily the best way to live, in my opinion. Of course best is subjective.
• shrikant 3y ago
  I also grew up in a family and cultural setting that didn't involve any alcohol at all until I was about 25. I've since done almost a complete 180, and now it's very unlikely that a week goes by without alcohol consumption of some sort. I have tonnes of fun and it makes social interactions so much easier for someone like me. And pretty much all of my close social circles have a reasonably healthy relationship with booze, so it's not like we're going out and getting plastered on weekends. I guess what I'm trying to say is: there's all sorts. Edited to add: What 'contrarian1234 said in a sibling comment as well.
  • ramraj07 3y ago
    Your story is similar to most of my friends’ stories. We all grew up without any alcohol around and the default behavior is to crave the thing you’re told not to have I suppose. Godspeed as long as you are it’s master and not the other way around.
  • nottorp 3y ago
    Most anti alcohool people assume that if you start drinking socially you'll start to drink every day. Society could use more emphasis on self control.
• vintermann 3y ago
  Don't know about ice cream specifically, but for rum cream, they use rum essence rather than rum liquor. You'd need so much liquor to get the flavor people expect, it wouldn't be creamy anymore. I expect the same is true of other rum-flavoured things. Rum essence can be alcohol-based, but propylene glycol also is common and works just fine.
• specproc 3y ago
  Ach, I understand, there are a lot of issues with alcohol. Had quite a journey myself. That said, I liked the article and might give this a go some time. My hearing is lousy for the same reasons as the author. Whilst I don't drink regularly I have many friends who do. My favourite place to have a catch up and a deep talk is on the hill walking my dog, but that's a bit intense for some friends, and cafes, restaurants and such can also be pretty noisy. Judging others' drinking misses the point of the article. As we age, we need different spaces and mechanisms for socialising. This is one I'd not thought of, and I enjoyed the author's solution and story.
• lynx23 3y ago
  Fascinating. You dont know about the other side, but you seem to know how bad it is. Sorry, but if you dont know about it, dont talk about it. Yes, alcohol has pretty bad effects on certain people, but condemning every sort of social gathering with drinks like you do, without having any experience, is just strange. Feels like a priest giving advice on sex, just dont do it...
  • ramraj07 3y ago
    It’s a good skill to cultivate to try and guess how your life will be after you make some permanent choices. I have always been thoughtful about those and have generally had a good track record guessing how my life changes after each (moving to a different country, moving from academia to tech, moving from single life to a relationship etc). There’s always a possibility that I’ve missed on something by not drinking, but I’m yet to hear any person articulate that thing to me.
    • ihateyouall3456 3y ago
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    • getwiththeprog 3y ago
      I think you've hit a nerve here! Turns out people do love their 'ways of life'. It's also interesting that with a PhD in biomedical engineering, this is the conversation people choose to have. As for what alcohol can give you that you don't already know about... It is the 'joy of being a dickhead' the 'wild abandon' or the 'abasement of self' in a communal ritual of shared identity. Some might go so far as to say that the 'revels of dionysus' or 'the bacchanalian' form an intrisic part of civilised identity where that which is proper is upended. Drinking together makes us human and civilised - for the very reason that drinking is choosing to leave civilisation behind. Is there a line then, into this baccanalian, that can be crossed - where the party turns to the wretched vomit, the fool, the car-crash? Yes - there is this line, and how many of your detractors have crossed it - more than once?
• hardware2win 3y ago
  >The conversations are more memorable and deep and happen at coffee shops, restaurants or on our way to those places. If you have never used alcohol / went to bar, then how do you know if you dont know the perspective? After alcohol people are more open tho.
  • ramraj07 3y ago
    I didn’t say I never went to a bar or pub. I still end up in one once a year or two. Every time it’s just wasted. My friends say less interesting things more slurred. You don’t realize how stupid you have to become to find drunk people conversations interesting. Jenga can be fun only if you’re playing with a kid or if a drug has knocked most of your cerebral cortex offline.
    • hallway_monitor 3y ago
      Drinking doesn't mean getting drunk, except to college kids. No friend of mine ever drinks to the point of slurring speech, it's a sign of a problem in an adult and quite distasteful. Drinking with friends is fun, getting drunk is stupid.
    • hardware2win 3y ago
      One beer != drunk, it is just atmosphere adjuster
    • cedilla 3y ago
      You mistake your very personal opinions for universal facts. A lot of people enjoy Jenga and other dexterity games. It's just not your cup of tea. But please stop telling yourself that you not liking Jenga is a sign of superior intellect.
    • SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
      Jenga enjoyment doesn’t really have much to do with cerebral cortex functioning imo. It’s a simple game with simple rules, some minor stakes, and no capacity for completely bullshit strategies where a smug asshole can ruin the game for everyone else. This makes it broadly appealing, allows people to jump in and out as needed, and gives a conversation to be had around while not hoarding up the conversation with the game itself. This reads like someone who is justifying their personal choices by putting down the choices of others. If you don’t drink, don’t drink, but also there’s no reason to go out and build straw man arguments about drinkers.
• zigman1 3y ago
  I was visiting London by myself last week. Few people I know were busy so I couldn't meet them. In three free days I had, I went to coffee shops, restaurant, parks and a pub. Guess where I met new people. Not saying you can't in other places, but to start an interaction with a stranger is so much more relaxed in(front of) a pub. Sure I could go to that group of people in the park, but wouldn't be that a bit to intrusive? In the blues pub where I went, at least I know they all like the same music as me. I had a chat with people who lived in the city their whole life. I had a chat with a person from the country with a similar name, the one others constantly mistake us for, I had a chat with a regular from a bar and someone who just arrived to the city. I chatted with someone who studied the same thing as me. I met someone who showed me a similar place couple of blocks away with whom I then walked and talked most of the night (in a park :) ). And no one really expects you to drink. What is more, if you are not there at strange night hours, most of the people don't act that differently after two or three beers.
  • ramraj07 3y ago
    This is the only acceptable reason I can see for going to a pub, if this truly matters to you. I don’t mind meeting and knowing new people, but honestly just don’t see the net benefit. Going to a pub to not get drunk, they better have stellar jazz or killer wings lol. Not sure I’d do it anywhere except in New Orleans. Where I have.
    • Eisenstein 3y ago
      > I don’t mind meeting and knowing new people, but honestly just don’t see the net benefit. This sounds rather self-absorbed.
    • selimthegrim 3y ago
      Where did you go in New Orleans?
  • thorin 3y ago
    Which blues pub was it? I used to enjoy going to the 12 bar in Denmark Street but a lot of the music scene there has closed down now. That used to be where a lot a the musical instrument shops were. Unfortunately due to rents and online selling there aren't too many physical music shops anymore in Central London.
• deleted 3y ago
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• silverpepsi 3y ago
  This is pretty strongly worded. I would only say you were "blessed" if your were predisposed to alcoholism. My life has had a huge variety of phases, some 6 months or one year periods with alcohol and others often longer 2-3 years almost entirely without. There is no seduction to the substance for me, nothing to need "quitting", yet there were a few amazing memories that wouldn't have happened without. I feel I got to see it all, and the ideal is probably having a group of friends who indulge without limit once in a great while - every two or three months. I think this would benefit most people, the exception are "super connectors" who have social abilities so strong that they effortlessly connect to people and connect other pairs (1% or less of the population afaik) without expenditg effort. But for me, introverted, if I never used alcohol I wouldn't even understand the concept of stopping being uptight and reserved for a single moment to know what life "could be like". This knowledge helps me fight the overwhelming urge when sober to let the inward inclination be all consuming.
• ozim 3y ago
  I think most of reactions here are because comment reads like you believe someone who drinks alcohol cannot go for a dinner to a restaurant or to grab a coffee and be sober. You know that people who drink also meet people sober and most of their life they are sober to do work and much of socializing as well. Going with comment on "conversations are more memorable and deep" comes off as smug just like you would show off how many IQ points you have. I don't meet people to have "memorable or deep insights", I meet people because I like them and I feel like giving them my time is nice thing to do and I am happy that they feel that I am worthy enough so they want to spend time with me.
• VoodooJuJu 3y ago
  >The conversations are more memorable and deep and happen at coffee shops More memorable than what - in pubs which you don't go to? You don't know because you've never partook, as you said. You don't know what you're missing out on. How then can you judge one way or the other? I wouldn't dismiss alcohol as a net negative to humanity. Beer and wine are Lindy staples in European cultures, not just as intoxicants but primarily as food. And although your family culture is quite different, the majority culture of the wealthy, liberal country you received your world-class education from is alcohol-positive. There's something to that. Note also that drinking alcohol doesn't mean drinking to excess, which is what many people seem to implicate when they talk about drinking alcohol.
  • selimthegrim 3y ago
    Lindy staples?
    • VoodooJuJu 3y ago
      Lindy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect; ...the longer a period something has survived to exist or be used in the present, the longer its remaining life expectancy. Longevity implies a resistance to change, obsolescence or competition and greater odds of continued existence into the future. staples as in "staple foods or crops"
      • selimthegrim 3y ago
        Oh I understood the latter but now I see where that saying about how a company is expected to last long as it’s already had comes from
• yanellena 3y ago
  Pubs can be nice places to go to without needing to drink alcohol. In Britain there are some fantastic pub buildings and gardens. Personally I meet many of my friends in pubs and the alcohol isn't a factor at all. We manage to have deep and meaningful conversations often.
• deleted 3y ago
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• CalRobert 3y ago
  That doesn't sound like a very good solution to "where should I have a pint?"
• hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
  One thing I've learned about the internet - any time you dismiss alcohol, somehow will show up feeling slighted.
  • joenot443 3y ago
    Same with Linux, anime, hiking, metal, or anything else that lots of people like. Usually when people dismiss an entire category of things which they've never even tried, they're not operating out of a place of knowledge, just ideology. It's super weird for the GP to feel such strong superiority over something they find themselves unable to even try without fear of disaster. We're supposed to consider them the more enlightened one?
    • hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
      I don't find it super weird, at least conceptually. Conceptually there could be things so dangerous that you can't try even once. Maybe he's mistaken in believing that alcohol belongs to that category, but the principle is conservative, if not optimal. Yes, better to err by never trying than by becoming addicted. Disclosure, I enjoy alcohol, but I admire those who say "I won't try, not even once".
      • ihateyouall3456 3y ago
        I don't. Failures of life
• m0llusk 3y ago
  Absolutism is often misguided, especially in light of history. This reminds me of the people saying the US and the West are a curse to the global south because of their constant meddling without giving credit for the green revolution and airplanes and so on. Similarly alcohol is indeed a poison with great social costs, but it is also a social lubricant which has enabled people to meet and exchange with others and has helped to start many long lasting relationships. Maybe it should just go away, but it probably will not.
  • delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
    > the US and the West are a curse to the global south There is much controversy around this, but by and large most people agree that US interference in South America, and English interference in the Middle East and South Asia in the late 19th and 20th centuries was a net negative for all the resulting countries. Much of American and English wealth was built on extracting resources and wealth out of these countries and concentrating them in Europe and the US. Heck, the very crown of the King of England has an Indian/Pakistani diamond in it.
• convalescindrey 3y ago
  > The conversations are more memorable and deep More than .. what? The conversations you would have had in the evening in a bar? How do you know? Reminds me of the sticker on the detergent box "20% more effective at removing stains". ... More than ... what?
• Tade0 3y ago
  I also grew up largely without alcohol anywhere in sight. To the extent that as a child I perceived bars and beer gardens as mildly threatening - my family never went there, so I didn't understand why some people were so loud. With that out of the way: > Whether it’s work outing or friends gathering, I just pass if it’s supposed to be in a pub. There's a selection of non-alcoholic drinks in every bar nowadays. You don't really have to limit your social life like that just because you don't drink alcohol, unless you're trying to make some kind of point.
  • erenyeager 3y ago
    While many succumb to the pressure of going to bars for corporate reasons or peer pressure, it would be more accommodating for culture to be less focused around consumption of a harmful substance like alcohol which has such drastic consequences demonstrated, both long term and short term. A lot of non-drinkers would not even like to be in an environment where everyone else is drinking. Luckily, sober culture is becoming more popular as people realize the consequences of a society where alcohol consumption is widespread — cirrhosis, alcoholism, and various social ills & wastes of money and time.
• stcroixx 3y ago
  Only alcoholics have lives revolving around alcohol and they're in the minority. You're simply missing out on a huge swath of adult socialization. I know many people who don't drink alcohol, but still go to pubs and bars to enjoy other types of drinks, food, and socialization. It't not at all uncommon. Also, pubs do not require any kind of special pants or shoes.
• ihateyouall3456 3y ago
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• sarora27 3y ago
  You are definitely not missing out on anything. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to themselves OR isn't as healthy as they think. Everyone will agree that eating 6-8 slices of bread per day is NOT good for your health but will sing a completely different tune about drinking 2-3 beers at a bar because "socializing" and other excuses. Ultimately, drinking is the cheapest/easiest way to "socialize" while investing the minimal amount of time thinking about who they want to associate with. The alternative of finding a club, picking up a new activity, and learning what you like/dislike is way more expensive from a time perspective then kicking back 2-4 drinks in a dimly lit room across the street.