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You do realize that not just cars used roads? Goods, groceries, e-bikes don’t magically transport to their final destinations. Edit: there is this Captain Pla

You do realize that not just cars used roads? Goods, groceries, e-bikes don’t magically transport to their final destinations. Edit: there is this Captain Planet like view of cars as though most drivers are evil polluters. We are just trying to get on with our lives and aren’t privileged as folks who can afford to live car free.

ori_b 3y ago
Yeah, it's shame those vital arteries of goods are always so choked up with personal cars.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  Yep groceries just grow wings and fly to stores. TP just grows wings and flies to barhrooms straight from the factories.
0xfaded 3y ago
It sure sucks paying taxes and not getting separated and protected cycling lanes.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  What separate taxes do cyclists pay over gas tax and annual DMV taxes that car drivers pay? Shouldn’t cyclists pay their fair share for their usage? Why no DMV fee for cycles?
  - sleepybrett 3y ago
    a bicycle doesn't wear the road like a car does. A bridge built for bicycles doesn't have to be built to carry so much weight and would be cheaper. Bicycle infrastructure is cheaper to build and maintain.
  - Karrot_Kream 3y ago
    On average only 41% of US roads are funded by a gas tax and only 53% are funded by some form of user fee, gas tax inclusive [1]. This formula varies per state. Cyclists subsidize road usage for drivers who use them much more, both because cars are much heavier and lead to increased wear and because drivers drive more miles and therefore put more wear on more roadway. It's a common myth that people believe US roads are solely or even mostly funded through user fees. [1]: https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/ https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/
    - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
      > On average only 41% of US roads are funded by a gas tax and only 53% are funded by some form of user fee, gas tax inclusive [1] What about thousands in DMV fees? Your reference doesn’t cover that. Why does everyone ignore that? > It's a common myth that people believe US roads are solely or even mostly funded through user fees. Just repeating the same falsehood from biased sources doesn’t make it true. Once again give me a source with DMV fees.
      - Karrot_Kream 3y ago
        Lol come on. These fees are based on actual apportionments by the Federal government down to the states. DMV fees are probably made up in the "user fees" portion of the reference. These fees vary per state of course. > Just repeating the same falsehood from biased sources doesn’t make it true. "I don't believe you so your source is false." Okay so where are your alternate sources? According to the CA Legislative Analyst's Office [1], 63% of California roads were funded through user fees in 2022-2023. My above source reads 60% as of 2019. This tracks. So unless you think the CA State Government's own Legislative Analyst office is a "biased source", then these figures are probably broadly accurate. [1]: https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4628 https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4628
klabb3 3y ago
Passenger vehicles is the vast majority, so the majority of infrastructure cost and especially land use is a direct result of car-centrism. But you still make an important point: even old cities in Europe rely on (usually a bit smaller) trucks, today, for deliveries of goods in the city. And blue light traffic is still dependent on roads and streets. Bikes and e-bikes use so little space it’s a rounding error.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  I can understand (irrational) car hate but hating roads? We aren’t living in 3023 with teleporting groceries.
  - klabb3 3y ago
    I don’t think that’s a common opinion. I haven’t even met anyone that hate cars, but there are many that think car-centrism results in boring, isolated cities. That’s quite reasonable, since car centrism is, so far, a historical anomaly in terms of urbanism. Humans have been building cities for millennia. The US suburbia model is just objectively novel, an outlier in human civilization. Doesn’t mean it’s bad of itself, but it’s certainly not normative.

ori_b 3y ago

Yeah, it's shame those vital arteries of goods are always so choked up with personal cars.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Yep groceries just grow wings and fly to stores. TP just grows wings and flies to barhrooms straight from the factories.

0xfaded 3y ago

It sure sucks paying taxes and not getting separated and protected cycling lanes.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
What separate taxes do cyclists pay over gas tax and annual DMV taxes that car drivers pay? Shouldn’t cyclists pay their fair share for their usage? Why no DMV fee for cycles?
- sleepybrett 3y ago
  a bicycle doesn't wear the road like a car does. A bridge built for bicycles doesn't have to be built to carry so much weight and would be cheaper. Bicycle infrastructure is cheaper to build and maintain.
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  On average only 41% of US roads are funded by a gas tax and only 53% are funded by some form of user fee, gas tax inclusive [1]. This formula varies per state. Cyclists subsidize road usage for drivers who use them much more, both because cars are much heavier and lead to increased wear and because drivers drive more miles and therefore put more wear on more roadway. It's a common myth that people believe US roads are solely or even mostly funded through user fees. [1]: https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/ https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    > On average only 41% of US roads are funded by a gas tax and only 53% are funded by some form of user fee, gas tax inclusive [1] What about thousands in DMV fees? Your reference doesn’t cover that. Why does everyone ignore that? > It's a common myth that people believe US roads are solely or even mostly funded through user fees. Just repeating the same falsehood from biased sources doesn’t make it true. Once again give me a source with DMV fees.
    - Karrot_Kream 3y ago
      Lol come on. These fees are based on actual apportionments by the Federal government down to the states. DMV fees are probably made up in the "user fees" portion of the reference. These fees vary per state of course. > Just repeating the same falsehood from biased sources doesn’t make it true. "I don't believe you so your source is false." Okay so where are your alternate sources? According to the CA Legislative Analyst's Office [1], 63% of California roads were funded through user fees in 2022-2023. My above source reads 60% as of 2019. This tracks. So unless you think the CA State Government's own Legislative Analyst office is a "biased source", then these figures are probably broadly accurate. [1]: https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4628 https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4628

klabb3 3y ago

Passenger vehicles is the vast majority, so the majority of infrastructure cost and especially land use is a direct result of car-centrism. But you still make an important point: even old cities in Europe rely on (usually a bit smaller) trucks, today, for deliveries of goods in the city. And blue light traffic is still dependent on roads and streets. Bikes and e-bikes use so little space it’s a rounding error.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
I can understand (irrational) car hate but hating roads? We aren’t living in 3023 with teleporting groceries.
- klabb3 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s a common opinion. I haven’t even met anyone that hate cars, but there are many that think car-centrism results in boring, isolated cities. That’s quite reasonable, since car centrism is, so far, a historical anomaly in terms of urbanism. Humans have been building cities for millennia. The US suburbia model is just objectively novel, an outlier in human civilization. Doesn’t mean it’s bad of itself, but it’s certainly not normative.