4 ms·

But how do you define yourself outside of thinking and feeling? Even the thought to disidentify is a thought, no? I don't understand.

starbugs 3y ago
The thought 'disidentify' is just a word for describing the process of understanding it. Think about it like this: As long as you believe that you are your thoughts, you are identified with them. They are you. Can you control your thoughts? No? Ok, there's the problem. But you are not your thoughts, actually. You are able to 'hear' your thoughts. If it weren't so, who would be unable to control their thoughts in the thought experiment above? Did you ever walk down the street and suddenly have your mind comment on something you see without you having asked for it? Where did that thought come from? Did you intentionally cause it? Or did it just happen and you recognized it happily (or sadly) talking inside your mind for no good reason? Try the following experiment: Ask yourself what will be your next thought? What happens? If you really are your thoughts, then you should be able to know what the next one will be, no? Edit: You asked how do you define yourself? For me, it's easiest to think of me as the one who thinks or feels, or better "the one who can hear thoughts or feel feelings". Ultimately, I believe this is just another thought that helps deprogramming a conditioning. In reality, your 'self' does not even exist. It's a concept made up by the mind.
pjohri 3y ago
Excellent question, it is a long process to start understanding that you are not your mind. And learning to live in that mode. Lookup talks by Osho if you want to get started.
- haswell 3y ago
  There are many paths to these insights, and I personally used the "Waking Up" app by Sam Harris. I gravitated to this because I was pretty allergic to anything that looked too spiritual or mystical (due to my own pretty negative religious history). I haven't personally listened to Osho, but if other readers find that the content doesn't resonate, there may be a different packaging that does. I personally needed something strictly secular, and I don't know if that's a factor with his content.
  - pjohri 3y ago
    His content 100% resonates with me, because he talks about the truth. Very few people do. Most people talk about meditation or mindfulness and other prescriptions but not truth. Spirituality, mystical things , religion are all meaningless words.
    - haswell 3y ago
      I should clarify that I didn’t mean to imply that he does not resonate with you personally, and meant to direct that at future readers curious about the subject but skeptical about a particular style of delivery. And I agree, meditation and mindfulness are not some ultimate prescription, but a stepping stone.
andrei_says_ 3y ago
By experiencing yourself as something in addition to your thoughts. Think of listening to a talk station 24/7, since you were 2. You have come to see this radio station as your own internal voice - it seems to always be there. Then suddenly someone turns off the radio. Or tells you - hey, this is a radio, notice the hum and its weight and warmth. Or says - listen, there’s silence in the room in which the radio-produced sound exists. Or, “notice, you’re breathing. You just inhaled. Now you exhaled…” There’s an infinite amount of practices evolved to do just that.
akomtu 3y ago
By learning to calmly observe your thoughts and emotions.
- EatingWithForks 3y ago
  What I don't understand is that the act of observing your own thoughts is still a thoughtful action.
  - Viliam1234 3y ago
    If thinking is like inner speech, then there is also an option to be quiet for a while. You start the act of observation by telling yourself "now I am going to observe", but then you can stop talking. The goal is not to stop thinking forever. Thoughts are useful. The goal is to stop thinking obsessively.
  - akomtu 3y ago
    Thinking is like drawing pictures, and watching those pictures is a different process.

starbugs 3y ago

The thought 'disidentify' is just a word for describing the process of understanding it. Think about it like this: As long as you believe that you are your thoughts, you are identified with them. They are you. Can you control your thoughts? No? Ok, there's the problem. But you are not your thoughts, actually. You are able to 'hear' your thoughts. If it weren't so, who would be unable to control their thoughts in the thought experiment above? Did you ever walk down the street and suddenly have your mind comment on something you see without you having asked for it? Where did that thought come from? Did you intentionally cause it? Or did it just happen and you recognized it happily (or sadly) talking inside your mind for no good reason? Try the following experiment: Ask yourself what will be your next thought? What happens? If you really are your thoughts, then you should be able to know what the next one will be, no? Edit: You asked how do you define yourself? For me, it's easiest to think of me as the one who thinks or feels, or better "the one who can hear thoughts or feel feelings". Ultimately, I believe this is just another thought that helps deprogramming a conditioning. In reality, your 'self' does not even exist. It's a concept made up by the mind.

pjohri 3y ago

Excellent question, it is a long process to start understanding that you are not your mind. And learning to live in that mode. Lookup talks by Osho if you want to get started.

haswell 3y ago
There are many paths to these insights, and I personally used the "Waking Up" app by Sam Harris. I gravitated to this because I was pretty allergic to anything that looked too spiritual or mystical (due to my own pretty negative religious history). I haven't personally listened to Osho, but if other readers find that the content doesn't resonate, there may be a different packaging that does. I personally needed something strictly secular, and I don't know if that's a factor with his content.
- pjohri 3y ago
  His content 100% resonates with me, because he talks about the truth. Very few people do. Most people talk about meditation or mindfulness and other prescriptions but not truth. Spirituality, mystical things , religion are all meaningless words.
  - haswell 3y ago
    I should clarify that I didn’t mean to imply that he does not resonate with you personally, and meant to direct that at future readers curious about the subject but skeptical about a particular style of delivery. And I agree, meditation and mindfulness are not some ultimate prescription, but a stepping stone.

andrei_says_ 3y ago

By experiencing yourself as something in addition to your thoughts. Think of listening to a talk station 24/7, since you were 2. You have come to see this radio station as your own internal voice - it seems to always be there. Then suddenly someone turns off the radio. Or tells you - hey, this is a radio, notice the hum and its weight and warmth. Or says - listen, there’s silence in the room in which the radio-produced sound exists. Or, “notice, you’re breathing. You just inhaled. Now you exhaled…” There’s an infinite amount of practices evolved to do just that.

akomtu 3y ago

By learning to calmly observe your thoughts and emotions.

EatingWithForks 3y ago
What I don't understand is that the act of observing your own thoughts is still a thoughtful action.
- Viliam1234 3y ago
  If thinking is like inner speech, then there is also an option to be quiet for a while. You start the act of observation by telling yourself "now I am going to observe", but then you can stop talking. The goal is not to stop thinking forever. Thoughts are useful. The goal is to stop thinking obsessively.
- akomtu 3y ago
  Thinking is like drawing pictures, and watching those pictures is a different process.