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Dumb question: After the 8473628484th study confirming how important the gut micro biome is, why isn’t there a pill to build it up? Like a multi-vitamin that j

Dumb question: After the 8473628484th study confirming how important the gut micro biome is, why isn’t there a pill to build it up? Like a multi-vitamin that just boosts the diversity in the gut? Are processed diets changing the physical makeup (thermal?, acidic?) of the gut as well and therefore a pill won’t work?

edgyquant 3y ago
Isn’t this exactly what a probiotic is?
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  I think this is an example of such probiotic pills. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NL165W https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NL165W
- HumanOstrich 3y ago
  Not exactly. Probiotics tend to have transitory effects, so you have to keep taking them to see the benefits. You'd need to significantly change your diet and lifestyle to have a chance at generating any positive changes to your gut microbiome that will persist. Even then, it seems to be much more difficult to change things after an early age. Unless you get some magic fecal pills.
notaustinpowers 3y ago
We all have a different micro biome. While humans are only .01% different from each other, our micro biomes can vary wildly based on diet, lifestyle, environment, etc. There's no one size fits all pill we could take.
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  True, though it might be possible to make a more one-size-fits-all pill that targeted species which correlate with worse health (say, a bunch of bacteriophages).
  - dmbche 3y ago
    I think it's pretty tough to not nuke the whole flora, all I've heard about it was people taking long courses of antibiotics had very little flora and could develop digestive issues, and at that point transplants make sense.
JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
As edgyquant says, these pills are called probiotics, and they're readily available. The problem is that the gut biome is composed of 16 gajillion types of microbes, and understanding their individual & synergistic effects is nearly impossible currently. I do self-treat with probiotics periodically, but I see it as basically a leeching- or bloodletting-tier technique. See fecal matter transplantation - we're still in the dark ages here.
dmbche 3y ago
Just a quick note: You have to see your gut flora as an actual flora - like a forest. It doesn't get sunlight, you feed it nutrients. Whatever doesn't get fed dies, and what gets fed multiplies. Now the more wishiwashi things is that some effects have been noticed, like if you have a biome that loves straight sugars, it will lead you to want to keep feeding it sugars, since you're very efficient at getting energy out of it, since you've cultivated a large amount of bacteria that does that well. Some can also affect their environnement to help themselves and damage others. So it's tough to starve the "bad" and feed the "good". Ideally, your gut would be used (and optimised) to a whole and full diet that gives you all nutrients. All this to say - you can take probiotics if you want, but if you don't feed the bacteria you put in there, it's gonna die. So you have to both change your diet AND take probiotics. A way to do both? Lactofermenting! Just take some foods you like, lactoferment them and eat the non pasturised food. You are selecting for bacteria that feeds on foods you like, and putting both them and their food in your gut. They are going to thrive, while your old flora won't like it. I recommend making your own sauerkraut or kimchi to start, takes 10 minutes and 5 days of waiting. Costs 2$. Expext to get farty - that's the bad stuff dying and releasing gas. That just my ramblings and I don't have solid sources on hand, but if you read up on poop transplants this kind of makes sense. Edit: If you're into sourdough, making a starter is basically selecting for wheat digesting bacterium. So you're kinda doing the same with your flora! (Sourdough isn't a source of probiotics since it's cooked, it's just an analogy)
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  You can add more fermented foods and drinks in general: Sauerkraut, kombucha, kefir, kimchi etc. etc.

edgyquant 3y ago

Isn’t this exactly what a probiotic is?

jjtheblunt 3y ago
I think this is an example of such probiotic pills. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NL165W https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NL165W
HumanOstrich 3y ago
Not exactly. Probiotics tend to have transitory effects, so you have to keep taking them to see the benefits. You'd need to significantly change your diet and lifestyle to have a chance at generating any positive changes to your gut microbiome that will persist. Even then, it seems to be much more difficult to change things after an early age. Unless you get some magic fecal pills.

notaustinpowers 3y ago

We all have a different micro biome. While humans are only .01% different from each other, our micro biomes can vary wildly based on diet, lifestyle, environment, etc. There's no one size fits all pill we could take.

blacksmith_tb 3y ago
True, though it might be possible to make a more one-size-fits-all pill that targeted species which correlate with worse health (say, a bunch of bacteriophages).
- dmbche 3y ago
  I think it's pretty tough to not nuke the whole flora, all I've heard about it was people taking long courses of antibiotics had very little flora and could develop digestive issues, and at that point transplants make sense.

JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago

As edgyquant says, these pills are called probiotics, and they're readily available. The problem is that the gut biome is composed of 16 gajillion types of microbes, and understanding their individual & synergistic effects is nearly impossible currently. I do self-treat with probiotics periodically, but I see it as basically a leeching- or bloodletting-tier technique. See fecal matter transplantation - we're still in the dark ages here.

dmbche 3y ago

Just a quick note: You have to see your gut flora as an actual flora - like a forest. It doesn't get sunlight, you feed it nutrients. Whatever doesn't get fed dies, and what gets fed multiplies. Now the more wishiwashi things is that some effects have been noticed, like if you have a biome that loves straight sugars, it will lead you to want to keep feeding it sugars, since you're very efficient at getting energy out of it, since you've cultivated a large amount of bacteria that does that well. Some can also affect their environnement to help themselves and damage others. So it's tough to starve the "bad" and feed the "good". Ideally, your gut would be used (and optimised) to a whole and full diet that gives you all nutrients. All this to say - you can take probiotics if you want, but if you don't feed the bacteria you put in there, it's gonna die. So you have to both change your diet AND take probiotics. A way to do both? Lactofermenting! Just take some foods you like, lactoferment them and eat the non pasturised food. You are selecting for bacteria that feeds on foods you like, and putting both them and their food in your gut. They are going to thrive, while your old flora won't like it. I recommend making your own sauerkraut or kimchi to start, takes 10 minutes and 5 days of waiting. Costs 2$. Expext to get farty - that's the bad stuff dying and releasing gas. That just my ramblings and I don't have solid sources on hand, but if you read up on poop transplants this kind of makes sense. Edit: If you're into sourdough, making a starter is basically selecting for wheat digesting bacterium. So you're kinda doing the same with your flora! (Sourdough isn't a source of probiotics since it's cooked, it's just an analogy)

RamblingCTO 3y ago
You can add more fermented foods and drinks in general: Sauerkraut, kombucha, kefir, kimchi etc. etc.