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Congratulations on your launch. Did you ever consider using Amazon ECS instead of Kubernetes? I made the move from EKS to ECS a couple of years ago, because EC

Congratulations on your launch. Did you ever consider using Amazon ECS instead of Kubernetes? I made the move from EKS to ECS a couple of years ago, because ECS doesn't require you to pay for your own cluster control plane, and I feel that ECS integrates more seamlessly with the rest of AWS. I suppose that also means more AWS lock-in, but the Linux-based container images themselves are still portable. And overall, I've found that ECS is just less complicated and lower-maintenance than Kubernetes. But AFAIK, neither GCP nor Azure has an ECS-style shared container orchestration service. I wonder why that is.

nightpool 3y ago
> But AFAIK, neither GCP nor Azure has an ECS-style shared container orchestration service. I wonder why that is. Isn't this what Cloud Run on GCP is supposed to be? Or am I misunderstanding?
maccard 3y ago
Azure has Azure Container Apps.
suryao 3y ago
Google CloudRun (equivalent to ECS) and AWS ECS are great but they have some limitations in the type of workloads you can run. The choice of EKS (and GKE) was done for a few forward looking reasons including the ability to run any kind of workloads and more complex scenarios including enabling cloud portability for example. Else, it would lead to potential lock-in as companies diversify in their requirements. With Argonaut, we try to make EKS easier to use than ECS to bring the best of both worlds. We handle the kubernetes version upgrades as well.
zoomzoom 3y ago
Google cloud also has Cloud Run and GKE autopilot. It’s great to see all the amazing tooling being built into this space. Other companies to check out include flightcontrol, architect, quovery, Coherence (withcoherence.com - disclosure that I’m a founder), stacktape, and zeet.
Hikikomori 3y ago
We use ECS, but find ourselves implementing k8s features on top of it.
- tomhallett 3y ago
  Can you give some examples of what you are reimplementing? Is that going well or is it requiring hacky workarounds?
avbanks 3y ago
Azure AKS control plane is Free and they have a container service.
raffraffraff 3y ago
And I guess you've never been bitten in the ass by an ECS version upgrade that makes a bunch of your complex manifests break by removing support for apiVersions, or deprecating features that you use? Because that happened with k8s 1.22, 1.24, 1.25... also, k8s releases have accelerated recently, so an upgrade gives you less time between potentially breaking changes that might require you to revisit long horrible yaml files that you hoped you'd never have to look at again. I know a guy running a startup, and his product and/or CICD pipeline has been broken twice by EKS upgrades. He had originally contacted someone in to build out a robust, scalable, self-healing infra 2 years ago. He then continued to work on the product code himself. Be didn't realise that the infra code would rot so badly until a forced EKS cluster upgrade broke stuff. He had no idea where to start. There isn't an easy upgrade path from 1.1x to 1.27. I told him he might be better off thinking of it a disaster recovery, ie: get his data across to a new cluster, bootstrapped with the latest charts for cert-manager, external-dns, nginx-ingress etc. In many cases he could `helm get values -n $namespace $release` and install the latest chart with the backed up values.

nightpool 3y ago

> But AFAIK, neither GCP nor Azure has an ECS-style shared container orchestration service. I wonder why that is. Isn't this what Cloud Run on GCP is supposed to be? Or am I misunderstanding?

maccard 3y ago

Azure has Azure Container Apps.

suryao 3y ago

Google CloudRun (equivalent to ECS) and AWS ECS are great but they have some limitations in the type of workloads you can run. The choice of EKS (and GKE) was done for a few forward looking reasons including the ability to run any kind of workloads and more complex scenarios including enabling cloud portability for example. Else, it would lead to potential lock-in as companies diversify in their requirements. With Argonaut, we try to make EKS easier to use than ECS to bring the best of both worlds. We handle the kubernetes version upgrades as well.

zoomzoom 3y ago

Google cloud also has Cloud Run and GKE autopilot. It’s great to see all the amazing tooling being built into this space. Other companies to check out include flightcontrol, architect, quovery, Coherence (withcoherence.com - disclosure that I’m a founder), stacktape, and zeet.

Hikikomori 3y ago

We use ECS, but find ourselves implementing k8s features on top of it.

tomhallett 3y ago
Can you give some examples of what you are reimplementing? Is that going well or is it requiring hacky workarounds?

avbanks 3y ago

Azure AKS control plane is Free and they have a container service.

raffraffraff 3y ago

And I guess you've never been bitten in the ass by an ECS version upgrade that makes a bunch of your complex manifests break by removing support for apiVersions, or deprecating features that you use? Because that happened with k8s 1.22, 1.24, 1.25... also, k8s releases have accelerated recently, so an upgrade gives you less time between potentially breaking changes that might require you to revisit long horrible yaml files that you hoped you'd never have to look at again. I know a guy running a startup, and his product and/or CICD pipeline has been broken twice by EKS upgrades. He had originally contacted someone in to build out a robust, scalable, self-healing infra 2 years ago. He then continued to work on the product code himself. Be didn't realise that the infra code would rot so badly until a forced EKS cluster upgrade broke stuff. He had no idea where to start. There isn't an easy upgrade path from 1.1x to 1.27. I told him he might be better off thinking of it a disaster recovery, ie: get his data across to a new cluster, bootstrapped with the latest charts for cert-manager, external-dns, nginx-ingress etc. In many cases he could `helm get values -n $namespace $release` and install the latest chart with the backed up values.