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And so ends my joke that Oregonians are so stupid they legally can't be trusted to pump their own gas. Now only New Jersey stands as the dumbest state in the Un

And so ends my joke that Oregonians are so stupid they legally can't be trusted to pump their own gas. Now only New Jersey stands as the dumbest state in the Union ;)

rootusrootus 3y ago
On the other hand, Oregon is one of the very few states that don't have sales tax. Perhaps they're smarter than you give them credit for.
- rednerrus 3y ago
  This would be a good argument if they weren't so bad at allocating the taxes they do collect.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    I blame that on the politicians. Hell, Oregon politicians like to just walk out of the legislature when they think they lack popular support.
- oneplane 3y ago
  That sounds like a very one-sided argument. If you want a functioning government you're going to need money to pay for it, and if you don't have sales tax it means you have to get it elsewhere; it doesn't "make it go away". If the argument was supposed to be 'a smarter, well-functioning tax system that pays for government facilities' then say that. But such a statement would need some references to back it up.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    Sales tax is an abomination. I walk into the store, pick something off the the shelf that says it costs $9.99, but I can't actually buy it for that. Argh.
    - sircastor 3y ago
      I understand in some places in Europe (for instance) the price on the shelf is the price including tax. This is not a hard problem to solve. I think Sales tax for most things is probably the fairest means of taxation. It can be applied equally between the wealthy and the poor. It is applied when you choose to get something, rather than arbitrarily before or after. It tends to be applied evenly whether you're buying a box of chocolates or a flatscreen TV.
      - Symbiote 3y ago
        It's pretty much only the USA where the prices on the shelves aren't the final price with taxes. Sales tax (and VAT) is regressive since poor people spend a much larger portion of their income on goods subject to sales tax.
        hellojesus 3y ago
        Meh, you could lower taxes on inferior goods and increase them on luxury goods to compensate. Income taxes are pure evil as they are unavoidable and maximally painful. As an Oregonian, federal+state income tax means I don't make any money I get to keep until late April. I think about killing myself every year because of it.
        ksherlock 3y ago
        In 1991, a 10% federal luxury tax went into effect. Result: rich people stopped buying yachts and planes. Revenue raised was a rounding error (less than $13 million in a year and a half), luxury industries were decimated, and the tax was repealed 2 years later.
        sircastor 3y ago
        So the lesson learned here that very wealthy people are more interested in not paying taxes than they are in owning their own planes and yachts? I understand that $2.2 million is more than $2 million, but I find it kind of baffling that people spending that kind of money on that kind of thing are price sensitive.
  - eldritch_4ier 3y ago
    It isn't all or nothing. Imagine the government we could have if we all paid 90% in taxes - except I don't want that. I don't even want the kind of government that needs a budget of 40% of my income. If you live in a rural area, the government needs a budget to repair infra and run a few programs, it doesn't need the budget of NYC. Likewise, a government that lacks a sales tax mechanism doesn't "need to get the money elsewhere", it can simply go without and adjust it's services accordingly.
    - anon291 3y ago
      Well my county raised it's property taxes and now can't spend the money so is offering opt in discounts to those in the know (i.e. the well connected). Completely perverse misappropriation of funds
  - teawrecks 3y ago
    Sales tax disproportionately impacts the lower class. If I had the choice between no income tax vs no sales tax, I'd take no sales tax.
    - hellojesus 3y ago
      It only does so if the sales tax itself is regressive. The entire point of excise taxes is to be avoidable through conscious consumption. Heavy sales taxes on luxury goods are better than income taxes because it ensures anyone can avoid them by not spending but also ensures luxury good consumption merits disproportionate societal funding.
      - lionelholt 3y ago
        Taxing FOOD is always regressive.
- activiation 3y ago
  They have state income tax so I guess that offsets that....
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    Yep, the state still has to have some kind of tax base. Oregon ranks right in the middle, usually 24-26th amongst all 50 states in terms of total tax burden. But we are usually the least regressive (or close). As opposed to Washington, right across the river, who is frequently most regressive.
    - activiation 3y ago
      They can get very creative when it comes to taxes
- dboreham 3y ago
  We don't have sales tax here in Montana either, but I'm not sure how "smart" it is, since it basically means richer people pay less and less rich people pay more.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    Generally it's the other way around -- sales tax is strongly regressive. In fact, Oregon is usually just about the least regressive tax state in the US, and Washington is just about the most regressive. All because of sales tax vs progressive income tax.
    - jwagenet 3y ago
      I understand sales tax is in theory regressive, but this seems wrong/naive upon scrutiny because you would assume higher earners consume more than low earners, thus contribute more sales tax in absolute terms, if not quite in relative terms.
- bobro 3y ago
  i’d strongly prefer a sales tax to the high income tax, especially given how much tourism we have.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    The biggest difference comes down to income. It varies a little year-by-year, but in general Oregon has the least regressive tax regime in the US, while Washington has the most regressive. If you make a lot of money, living in Vancouver can make a real difference.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Oregon has sales tax on alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, hotel rooms, gasoline, rental cars, new car purchase, etc.
- hellojesus 3y ago
  No sales tax is awful! Instead of only getting taxed on purchases (WA), you pay 10% of your entire income to the state. It is tragic! And it also means any unreported wages are never taxed. It's pretty much the worst system possible.
  - Aleksdev 3y ago
    Agreed, I hate saving money! /s
  - babypuncher 3y ago
    Raising state income tax to 10% is not enough to exceed what I pay in sales tax in my state, so such a move would be a net positive for me. If I were a millionaire, it would be a very different story, and I would end up paying more in taxes. But if I were that rich, a relatively small change in my tax burden wouldn't have any real impact on my lifestyle, so who cares? I think sales taxes are generally regressive. They disproportionately impact the poor and middle class, who spend a greater percentage of their income on taxable goods and services than the wealthy.
    - hellojesus 3y ago
      I'm solidly middle class, and the 10% burden is really painful. Remember that is also counts against the $10k salt deduction federally. As it is, I pay well over the salt threshold in income alone, making all property tax unwriteoffable. The other thing income tax disallows is tax avoidance through nonconsumption. I have to pay it all regardless of how much I consume, which I try to keep low. It also means that my adjusted wages per hour are lower. Spent 70 hours a week on a pressing project? Congrats, you don't get paid OT so not only is your hourly wage lower, but your taxes per hour are disproportionately higher.
      - babypuncher 3y ago
        10% appears to be the tax rate for the upper classes. I make $110,000/year and my tax rate would only be 7%, barely up from the 5% I pay in my current state. But I end up paying 8.5% sales tax on just about everything I buy, so at worst it's a wash.
gms7777 3y ago
I lived in New Jersey for about 4 years. When I first moved there I thought it was the dumbest thing that we couldn't pump our own gas. Now that I've left, it's one of the few things I miss from NJ. Standing out at a gas pump when it's like 10 degrees and windy outside is miserable.
jasonlotito 3y ago
I don’t know, having to get out in the winter to fill the tank isn’t fun. I can sit right there and relax and then be on my way. I know a bunch of people in PA that cross the river to fill up in NJ just for that.

And so ends my joke that Oregonians are so stupid they legally can't be trusted to pump their own gas. Now only New Jersey stands as the dumbest state in the Union ;)

rootusrootus 3y ago

On the other hand, Oregon is one of the very few states that don't have sales tax. Perhaps they're smarter than you give them credit for.

rednerrus 3y ago
This would be a good argument if they weren't so bad at allocating the taxes they do collect.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  I blame that on the politicians. Hell, Oregon politicians like to just walk out of the legislature when they think they lack popular support.
oneplane 3y ago
That sounds like a very one-sided argument. If you want a functioning government you're going to need money to pay for it, and if you don't have sales tax it means you have to get it elsewhere; it doesn't "make it go away". If the argument was supposed to be 'a smarter, well-functioning tax system that pays for government facilities' then say that. But such a statement would need some references to back it up.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Sales tax is an abomination. I walk into the store, pick something off the the shelf that says it costs $9.99, but I can't actually buy it for that. Argh.
  - sircastor 3y ago
    I understand in some places in Europe (for instance) the price on the shelf is the price including tax. This is not a hard problem to solve. I think Sales tax for most things is probably the fairest means of taxation. It can be applied equally between the wealthy and the poor. It is applied when you choose to get something, rather than arbitrarily before or after. It tends to be applied evenly whether you're buying a box of chocolates or a flatscreen TV.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      It's pretty much only the USA where the prices on the shelves aren't the final price with taxes. Sales tax (and VAT) is regressive since poor people spend a much larger portion of their income on goods subject to sales tax.
      - hellojesus 3y ago
        Meh, you could lower taxes on inferior goods and increase them on luxury goods to compensate. Income taxes are pure evil as they are unavoidable and maximally painful. As an Oregonian, federal+state income tax means I don't make any money I get to keep until late April. I think about killing myself every year because of it.
        ksherlock 3y ago
        In 1991, a 10% federal luxury tax went into effect. Result: rich people stopped buying yachts and planes. Revenue raised was a rounding error (less than $13 million in a year and a half), luxury industries were decimated, and the tax was repealed 2 years later.
        sircastor 3y ago
        So the lesson learned here that very wealthy people are more interested in not paying taxes than they are in owning their own planes and yachts? I understand that $2.2 million is more than $2 million, but I find it kind of baffling that people spending that kind of money on that kind of thing are price sensitive.
- eldritch_4ier 3y ago
  It isn't all or nothing. Imagine the government we could have if we all paid 90% in taxes - except I don't want that. I don't even want the kind of government that needs a budget of 40% of my income. If you live in a rural area, the government needs a budget to repair infra and run a few programs, it doesn't need the budget of NYC. Likewise, a government that lacks a sales tax mechanism doesn't "need to get the money elsewhere", it can simply go without and adjust it's services accordingly.
  - anon291 3y ago
    Well my county raised it's property taxes and now can't spend the money so is offering opt in discounts to those in the know (i.e. the well connected). Completely perverse misappropriation of funds
- teawrecks 3y ago
  Sales tax disproportionately impacts the lower class. If I had the choice between no income tax vs no sales tax, I'd take no sales tax.
  - hellojesus 3y ago
    It only does so if the sales tax itself is regressive. The entire point of excise taxes is to be avoidable through conscious consumption. Heavy sales taxes on luxury goods are better than income taxes because it ensures anyone can avoid them by not spending but also ensures luxury good consumption merits disproportionate societal funding.
    - lionelholt 3y ago
      Taxing FOOD is always regressive.
activiation 3y ago
They have state income tax so I guess that offsets that....
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Yep, the state still has to have some kind of tax base. Oregon ranks right in the middle, usually 24-26th amongst all 50 states in terms of total tax burden. But we are usually the least regressive (or close). As opposed to Washington, right across the river, who is frequently most regressive.
  - activiation 3y ago
    They can get very creative when it comes to taxes
dboreham 3y ago
We don't have sales tax here in Montana either, but I'm not sure how "smart" it is, since it basically means richer people pay less and less rich people pay more.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Generally it's the other way around -- sales tax is strongly regressive. In fact, Oregon is usually just about the least regressive tax state in the US, and Washington is just about the most regressive. All because of sales tax vs progressive income tax.
  - jwagenet 3y ago
    I understand sales tax is in theory regressive, but this seems wrong/naive upon scrutiny because you would assume higher earners consume more than low earners, thus contribute more sales tax in absolute terms, if not quite in relative terms.
bobro 3y ago
i’d strongly prefer a sales tax to the high income tax, especially given how much tourism we have.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  The biggest difference comes down to income. It varies a little year-by-year, but in general Oregon has the least regressive tax regime in the US, while Washington has the most regressive. If you make a lot of money, living in Vancouver can make a real difference.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Oregon has sales tax on alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, hotel rooms, gasoline, rental cars, new car purchase, etc.
hellojesus 3y ago
No sales tax is awful! Instead of only getting taxed on purchases (WA), you pay 10% of your entire income to the state. It is tragic! And it also means any unreported wages are never taxed. It's pretty much the worst system possible.
- Aleksdev 3y ago
  Agreed, I hate saving money! /s
- babypuncher 3y ago
  Raising state income tax to 10% is not enough to exceed what I pay in sales tax in my state, so such a move would be a net positive for me. If I were a millionaire, it would be a very different story, and I would end up paying more in taxes. But if I were that rich, a relatively small change in my tax burden wouldn't have any real impact on my lifestyle, so who cares? I think sales taxes are generally regressive. They disproportionately impact the poor and middle class, who spend a greater percentage of their income on taxable goods and services than the wealthy.
  - hellojesus 3y ago
    I'm solidly middle class, and the 10% burden is really painful. Remember that is also counts against the $10k salt deduction federally. As it is, I pay well over the salt threshold in income alone, making all property tax unwriteoffable. The other thing income tax disallows is tax avoidance through nonconsumption. I have to pay it all regardless of how much I consume, which I try to keep low. It also means that my adjusted wages per hour are lower. Spent 70 hours a week on a pressing project? Congrats, you don't get paid OT so not only is your hourly wage lower, but your taxes per hour are disproportionately higher.
    - babypuncher 3y ago
      10% appears to be the tax rate for the upper classes. I make $110,000/year and my tax rate would only be 7%, barely up from the 5% I pay in my current state. But I end up paying 8.5% sales tax on just about everything I buy, so at worst it's a wash.

gms7777 3y ago

I lived in New Jersey for about 4 years. When I first moved there I thought it was the dumbest thing that we couldn't pump our own gas. Now that I've left, it's one of the few things I miss from NJ. Standing out at a gas pump when it's like 10 degrees and windy outside is miserable.

jasonlotito 3y ago

I don’t know, having to get out in the winter to fill the tank isn’t fun. I can sit right there and relax and then be on my way. I know a bunch of people in PA that cross the river to fill up in NJ just for that.