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https://twitter.com/siwatanejo/status/1668585129374289925 https://twitter.com/siwatanejo/status/1668585129374289925

colesantiago 3y ago
The only issue with this is: > I like crypto but think 99.999% of NFTs are scams It is more like 100% are scams, there is no NFT use case, it's all just jpgs.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Technically ENS names are NFTs, I'd say that's a non-scam use case equivalent to domain names.
  - siwatanejo 3y ago
    Nail on the head, I think ENS/BNS entries are the only NFTs that are not scams, because they have utility.
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      Insurance coverage are NFTs, and liquidity pool records are NFTs there are other financials using that technology
      - siwatanejo 3y ago
        I didn’t say there aren’t? What I said is that the domains are the only ones that are not scams.
        yieldcrv 3y ago
        okay. I don't consider the financials to be scams and I thought you were talking about things distinct from visual collectibles. I find high utility in the financials.
  - colesantiago 3y ago
    Yes, domain names have existed since forever, but I don't see how crypto domain names are any different or changes anything. Does a domain name need a token attached to the service in order to operate? I would say it is still a scam as it is airdropping ENS tokens that were minted out of thin air and insiders pump and dumping the token to make a profit. You can't do that illegal stuff with traditional domain names.
    - DennisP 3y ago
      The name itself is the non-fungible token. You just pick your own ENS name and buy it from the system, much like DNS, though they did add a bit of complexity in an attempt to limit name squatting. (ENS later airdropped a fungible token used for things like voting rights, since this is meant to be a decentralized project and there's no reliable way on Ethereum to identify individual people for voting purposes.) Ethereum is essentially a database, so certainly centralized databases can do similar things. The point is to do them with decentralization, openness, censorship resistance, and an economic model where users pay the expenses as they go. You may or may not think those things are valuable, but some people do; Ethereum and similar projects fill that niche.
    - siwatanejo 3y ago
      AFAIU the token is only needed in case you want to participate in the voting of governance events, related to the roadmap of the ENS project. You don't need ENS tokens to register or use ENS domains. IMO the token might be an illegal security indeed; and if that's the case I hope the SEC crushes them. But in the meantime I'll be using ENS names happily as a user and watch the events with popcorn. > but I don't see how crypto domain names are any different or changes anything. It will prevent that a big corp with the court on their side redirect your domain-bought-in-a-complete-legit way to them.
      - DennisP 3y ago
        Sometime I'd like to see a court rule on the SEC's theory that a token airdropped to people who made no actual financial investment nevertheless passes the "investment of money" clause of the Howey test.
- photonerd 3y ago
  The original idea behind NFTs is fine. Selling links to JPEGs was not the purpose. I’ve seen them used sensibly for shipment tracking, and such like. They’re great for that.
  - colesantiago 3y ago
    > I’ve seen them used sensibly for shipment tracking. Why do this when the current system already handles this? This is no unique usecase.
    - this_user 3y ago
      It really isn't, because if you either don't trust the sender or the shipping company, then your real issue is that the shipment or its contents get stolen, not that the shipping information is wrong. Once again, crypto is trying to solve problems that don't actually exist while completely failing to address the ones that do.
      - derefr 3y ago
        > then your real issue is that the shipment or its contents get stolen No, the chain-of-provenance use-case is to prevent people from being able to sell grey-market products while claiming that they're official products. E.g. selling iPhones built out of reconstituted parts from iPhones that were pickpocketed from their owners and then scrapped for parts. (Yes, this is a big issue — Google "my stolen phone ended up in shenzhen" and you'll get a ton of news stories.) If you (or a retailer) forces the retailer (wholesaler) to provide a chain of digital signatures demonstrating each hand-off of the parts all the way back to the factory that produced them, then you implicitly reject any assemblage of parts where some of the parts were black-market-sourced. Which allows for legitimate refurbishing using legitimately acquired parts (i.e. it doesn't put the Shenzhen phone-repair stores themselves out of business); but destroys the demand for the electronics "chop shops" these stores currently sometimes order parts from. In this case, a "blockchain" here is an open-public-participation multiparty ledger that tracks ownership of physical goods; with a digital signature inherent to each transfer of the digital asset representing the physical good, which should be done at time of transfer of physical goods. Unlike other use-cases, you really can't simplify the solution — to enable this use-case, you need a system with pretty much all the properties of a blockchain.
- user6723 3y ago
  Property titles for real estate and cars on the Blockchain is a legit use, but in 2016 when I worked on that we didn't call them NFT.

The only issue with this is: > I like crypto but think 99.999% of NFTs are scams It is more like 100% are scams, there is no NFT use case, it's all just jpgs.

DennisP 3y ago
Technically ENS names are NFTs, I'd say that's a non-scam use case equivalent to domain names.
- siwatanejo 3y ago
  Nail on the head, I think ENS/BNS entries are the only NFTs that are not scams, because they have utility.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    Insurance coverage are NFTs, and liquidity pool records are NFTs there are other financials using that technology
    - siwatanejo 3y ago
      I didn’t say there aren’t? What I said is that the domains are the only ones that are not scams.
      - yieldcrv 3y ago
        okay. I don't consider the financials to be scams and I thought you were talking about things distinct from visual collectibles. I find high utility in the financials.
- colesantiago 3y ago
  Yes, domain names have existed since forever, but I don't see how crypto domain names are any different or changes anything. Does a domain name need a token attached to the service in order to operate? I would say it is still a scam as it is airdropping ENS tokens that were minted out of thin air and insiders pump and dumping the token to make a profit. You can't do that illegal stuff with traditional domain names.
  - DennisP 3y ago
    The name itself is the non-fungible token. You just pick your own ENS name and buy it from the system, much like DNS, though they did add a bit of complexity in an attempt to limit name squatting. (ENS later airdropped a fungible token used for things like voting rights, since this is meant to be a decentralized project and there's no reliable way on Ethereum to identify individual people for voting purposes.) Ethereum is essentially a database, so certainly centralized databases can do similar things. The point is to do them with decentralization, openness, censorship resistance, and an economic model where users pay the expenses as they go. You may or may not think those things are valuable, but some people do; Ethereum and similar projects fill that niche.
  - siwatanejo 3y ago
    AFAIU the token is only needed in case you want to participate in the voting of governance events, related to the roadmap of the ENS project. You don't need ENS tokens to register or use ENS domains. IMO the token might be an illegal security indeed; and if that's the case I hope the SEC crushes them. But in the meantime I'll be using ENS names happily as a user and watch the events with popcorn. > but I don't see how crypto domain names are any different or changes anything. It will prevent that a big corp with the court on their side redirect your domain-bought-in-a-complete-legit way to them.
    - DennisP 3y ago
      Sometime I'd like to see a court rule on the SEC's theory that a token airdropped to people who made no actual financial investment nevertheless passes the "investment of money" clause of the Howey test.
photonerd 3y ago
The original idea behind NFTs is fine. Selling links to JPEGs was not the purpose. I’ve seen them used sensibly for shipment tracking, and such like. They’re great for that.
- colesantiago 3y ago
  > I’ve seen them used sensibly for shipment tracking. Why do this when the current system already handles this? This is no unique usecase.
  - this_user 3y ago
    It really isn't, because if you either don't trust the sender or the shipping company, then your real issue is that the shipment or its contents get stolen, not that the shipping information is wrong. Once again, crypto is trying to solve problems that don't actually exist while completely failing to address the ones that do.
    - derefr 3y ago
      > then your real issue is that the shipment or its contents get stolen No, the chain-of-provenance use-case is to prevent people from being able to sell grey-market products while claiming that they're official products. E.g. selling iPhones built out of reconstituted parts from iPhones that were pickpocketed from their owners and then scrapped for parts. (Yes, this is a big issue — Google "my stolen phone ended up in shenzhen" and you'll get a ton of news stories.) If you (or a retailer) forces the retailer (wholesaler) to provide a chain of digital signatures demonstrating each hand-off of the parts all the way back to the factory that produced them, then you implicitly reject any assemblage of parts where some of the parts were black-market-sourced. Which allows for legitimate refurbishing using legitimately acquired parts (i.e. it doesn't put the Shenzhen phone-repair stores themselves out of business); but destroys the demand for the electronics "chop shops" these stores currently sometimes order parts from. In this case, a "blockchain" here is an open-public-participation multiparty ledger that tracks ownership of physical goods; with a digital signature inherent to each transfer of the digital asset representing the physical good, which should be done at time of transfer of physical goods. Unlike other use-cases, you really can't simplify the solution — to enable this use-case, you need a system with pretty much all the properties of a blockchain.
user6723 3y ago
Property titles for real estate and cars on the Blockchain is a legit use, but in 2016 when I worked on that we didn't call them NFT.