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I can't believe the EU, which has fined Microsoft because of having IE as the default browser, is OK with Apple having a total walled garden in iOS. Which by th
by cypress66 3y ago
I can't believe the EU, which has fined Microsoft because of having IE as the default browser, is OK with Apple having a total walled garden in iOS. Which by the way only has one "browser", because other browsers are forced to use the safari engine.
- lapcat 3y ago> I can't believe the EU, which has fined Microsoft because of having IE as the default browser, is OK with Apple having a total walled garden in iOS. They aren't ok with it. The EU recently passed the Digital Markets Act. But some of the provisions don't take effect until 2024.
- delfinom 3y ago[flagged]
- geodel 3y agoUS companies are not allowed to buy EU.
- mchannon 3y agoHilarious. Countries aren’t allowed to invade each other. Also, crime is not allowed.
- evandale 3y agoI don't know why this is flagged. Saying "US companies are not allowed to buy EU" is lower quality IMO. Not being allowed to do things has never stopped people from doing things and it isn't adding to the discussion. At least this comment is pointing out how ridiculous it is to say something isn't allowed as a justification for why it will never happen.
- tinus_hn 3y ago[flagged]
- Gareth321 3y agoThe EU isn't like the US. This law will stay in effect during any court proceedings.
- evandale 3y agoComing to the conclusion that something can't happen because there exists a law that forbids it seems like it requires some faith in a system that I'm not willing to accept.
- Gareth321 3y agoUnlike a lot of antitrust action I see, the DMA has teeth. Up to 20% of global revenue per infraction. I'm not worried Apple is going to give up the entire market, and I know that that fine is enough to force compliance. So yes, I have a lot of faith in this system.
- tgv 3y agoMS was fined because it had an enormous market share in personal computing, making it practically a monopoly. Apple is nowhere near that.
- postalrat 3y agoApple has a sizable share of the mobile market in the USA and EU and what they are doing goes well beyond what MS did in the past.
- veave 3y agoThey don't even have half the market in the EU. They aren't a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination.
- photonerd 3y agoThey have 31% of the market, not even a third. They’re not even in the same league as what MS was doing. At the time of the EU vs MS suit they had a 91% market share, and had only recently come down from a fraction over 95% THAT is why the EU took action. Apple isn’t in a monopoly position in phones at all, they’re not even the dominant OS. What they are, is the one that makes the most money.
- newaccount74 3y agoYou are right that Apple does not have a monopoly on phones. But that does not mean that their behaviour is not anti-competitive.
- photonerd 3y agoAlmost all companies behavior is anti-competitive in some way. They rarely (tho occasionally) try to promote competition. Requiring Play services so much is anti-competitive by Google. Anti-competitive behavior isn’t, by itself, an issue. At least… it’s only an issue ideologically speaking.
- SllX 3y ago
- Varloom 3y agoBy May 2024 every iPhone in EU will be allowed to install alternative app stores legally. It's only a problem for the rest of the world.
- BizarreByte 3y ago[flagged]
- evandale 3y agoWhat makes you think that will happen?
- photonerd 3y ago[flagged]
- Gareth321 3y agoThe horror! How could the EU... allow me to install software on my little pocket computer. Those monsters!
- photonerd 3y agoI’ll sign you up for tech support for every boomer & grandma that gets scammed then, shall I?
- Gareth321 3y agoThere a very simple solution for this: "Grandma Mode." If you're worried about your grandma being scammed, or your grandma is still cognisant of her surroundings, you can put her on Grandma Mode. I don't think all of us should be on Grandma Mode permanently so that your grandma is protected from hypothetical scammers.
- waihtis 3y agoA bunch of bureaucrats somehow outsmarting one of the most well resourced and talented machineries out there is the thing I am skeptical about. The two systems are not equal by a long shot.
- EMIRELADERO 3y agoI don't think calling the EU "a bunch of bureaucrats" is accurate. I also love how "bureaucrat" ended up meaning "any government body which does stuff I don't like"
- reaperman 3y agoWhile I personally agree with your latter sentiment, the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines bureaucrat to be simply, “a member of a bureaucracy”. Where the top definition of bureaucracy is: a) : a body of nonelected government officials or b) : an administrative policymaking group So really, any government is a bureaucracy.
- ttepasse 3y agoAccording to (b) any large company, including Apple, is a bureaucracy.
- reaperman 3y agoThat feels accurate. For the parts of the company which are "policy-making", at least.
- babypuncher 3y agoA government is by definition a bureaucracy, but so is any private corporation. Any organization of sufficient size becomes one out of necessity. Any time you have a bunch of people together and you need to establish any kind of pattern for how things get done, you have a bureaucracy. What is funny is the way people use the word derisively, as if bureaucracy is inherently evil in some way. Bureaucracy is like math, it is netiehr good nor bad, it simply is. Like math, it can be used to do good or bad things.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zerohp 3y agoThree companies have wall gardens for game consoles and nobody cares about that. Those three companies own the entire console market. There's no alternative. Why doesn't the EU do something about that? Why is Apple an exception?
- kibwen 3y agoThis comment makes it sound like Apple shouldn't be forced to open up their hardware, but the better conclusion is that game consoles should be forced to open up their hardware. This is (allegedly) Hacker News, we should be all for giving people more control over the devices they (allegedly) own.
- lockhouse 3y agoJust don’t buy closed devices if that’s what you want. There’s no shortage of open devices available to buy. Complaining about iPhones and game consoles being closed is like complaining that your Honda Civic isn’t good at off-roading and won’t tow your horse trailer.
- fsflover 3y agoWhich open consoles can I buy nowadays?
- lockhouse 3y agoBuy a PC. There is also dev mode on Xbox One and later consoles: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-dev-mode/9nljhzjrn0f4?activetab=pivot:overviewtab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-dev-mode/9nljhzjrn0f4...
- newaccount74 3y ago> There’s no shortage of open devices available to buy. I'd like an open device that supports iMessage and Facetime. I don't understand why I should have to give up all the iOS software that I really like just because I want to run one app on my device that Apple doesn't allow.
- zimzam 3y agoThis is missing context: Microsoft made their browser free at a time when Netscape cost $49. Apple giving away Safari for free at a time when all major web browsers are free is different. Sure, Apple might benefit from being the default but Spotify and Pandora, which compete with Apple Music, are both still in Apple's app store.
- SpaghettiCthulu 3y agoThe context you're missing is that Apple doesn't allow any third-party browser engines on iOS for "security".
- lockhouse 3y agoWhy the quotes? Apps bundling their own outdated web views using old versions of Chromium or WebKit are a legitimate security threat. By forcing every web view to use the fully up to date system bundled one, you automatically eliminate dozens of security vulnerabilities. Nothing forces anyone to buy an iPhone. They don’t even have a majority of market share. In the late 90s-2000s, Microsoft actually held a monopoly on PCs. Smartphones on the other hand are a very healthy duopoly with diversity and cross pollination of ideas.
- timeon 3y agoMicrosoft had dominant position while Apple is minority. How can one even compare this?
- theshrike79 3y agoRemember: everything you blame Apple of also applies to Sony (Playstation) and Microsoft (Xbox). Exact same thing. A phone isn't a "general computing device" like a PC any more than a gaming console is. So if Apple has to allow 3rd party stuff on their phones, it must be so for PS and Xbox too.
- error503 3y agoGood, I don't know why I should have a problem with that? Though I disagree that a phone is not a 'general computing device' moreso than a gaming console is, it is hard to come up with a legally-clear definition of one.
- newaccount74 3y agoYeah, a phone is definitely a "general computing device", while a video console arguably is not. But considering that you can watch Youtube on a Nintendo Switch, I think they should maybe be considered "general computing devices" as well.
- theshrike79 3y agoHow so, the last two generations of Xbox and PS consoles have been pretty much off-the-shelf hardware. The Xbox and PS5 are literally using an AMD Zen2 CPU and an AMD GPU, nothing weirdly custom like the PS3's "emotion engine". There's no reason they couldn't run a standard Linux or even Windows. They have HDMI ports, USB and everything just like a normal PC. Even the PS3 with it's super weird processing system had a _native_ Linux version provided by Sony[0]. Why aren't people up in arms insisting that Microsoft and Sony allow us to install Linux on "our hardware", but are so very pressed when they can't do that with a phone? Why is a console walled garden perfectly fine, but on a phone it's anathema? Are people still thinking of the NES when they hear "console"? [0] Yes, it was there to dodge import taxes, but still =)
- error503 3y agoIt's pretty clear when you look at both how these devices are used, and how they are marketed, that there is a difference between the products' purpose. However you are right, it is hard to make an unambiguous distinction, so I am with you - consoles should also be forcibly opened up. I do strongly hold the philosophical view that if you own any computing device you, as the owner should have absolute control of what that device trusts as far as any cryptographic 'locks' are concerned. The place where this seems to have both a) the largest negative impact on the market and b) the best chance of people caring and doing something about it, seems to be with mobile computing, so that is where the voice are the loudest, but personally at least, I hold the same view about any device. Our society has long held that reverse engineering is perfectly acceptable when it comes to interoperability / competition, even if the OEM doesn't appreciate it. Now, we have progressed technologically to the point that an OEM can literally prevent any reasonable manner of that, if they want to. I just don't think our laws / society have really caught up with that fact yet, but for me it follows directly from the reasoning behind allowing reverse engineering that we shouldn't allow this. So I don't know why you keep bringing this up as if it is a counterpoint. Yes, it's a similar situation, and yes anything we do about Apple should apply to Sony as well.
- lockhouse 3y agoIf only someone like Samsung or Google would make a phone that allows side loading to meet your needs. Too bad Apple is the only option here.