7 ms·

I bike toured with a liquid fuel camping stove some years back. Few things will confuse a gas station attendant quite like sliding a quarter across the counter

I bike toured with a liquid fuel camping stove some years back. Few things will confuse a gas station attendant quite like sliding a quarter across the counter and telling them "pump #3, please". And then they look out there and see a loaded touring bike. In Oregon, though, not only were they not confused, the attendants managed to fill the fuel bottle without making a mess. That's a trick I still haven't quite mastered. Going reeeeeaaaalllly slowly seems to be part of it, but I still spill about half the time. The gas seems to come out aerated, and foams over before settling down. It's a bit like pouring a carbonated beverage, but you can't see how full the glass is.

Kye 3y ago
I thought those used butane or propane. I've never heard of one that uses gasoline.
- zikduruqe 3y ago
  Into the rabbit hole ye shall go. https://youtu.be/D_qFWoa_HR4?t=601 https://youtu.be/D_qFWoa_HR4?t=601
- loeg 3y ago
  Butane and propane are not liquid fuels at standard temperature/pressure; they're pressurized gases. You would not be able to fill them at a gas station pump. GP is talking about an old "white gas" stove (white gas is just gasoline without additives) which were popular before propane stoves dominated over the last 20 years.
  - dietrichepp 3y ago
    I’ll add that, my guess, the reason people don’t use white gas as much is because the stoves are more difficult to use. You have to pump them, go through a warmup stage, and keep them level. I don’t know the exact terminology for the parts, I just know the process, since I always used a white gas stove.
    - loeg 3y ago
      Right, I've used white gas stoves in the past. Propane cans sized for camping may have also became easier or cheaper to buy over time, although that's pure speculation.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Small propane tanks have been widely-available for car camping for a long time but the tanks are fairly heavy for backpacking or bike touring. Pre-LED lamps you also saw them used a lot in lanterns. What has happened in the US is that other gas cylinder stoves have become more common (and maybe more standardized per another comment).
    - callalex 3y ago
      They also have a higher potential to spill, and the gas doesn’t go away into the atmosphere very quickly so you can end up setting your picnic bench on fire.
      - dietrichepp 3y ago
        Have you seen this happen? It is surprisingly difficult—not impossible, just difficult—to light a small gas spill on fire. The reason that gas stoves are difficult to work with is because the flame so easily goes out. Under the right circumstances, gasoline will ignite, and the gas stove is designed to make that just barely possible. The picnic bench is a less ideal environment for lighting gasoline on fire. The movies make it look like you can just drop a match or lighter onto some spilled gasoline and get a raging inferno, but if you actually try to do this yourself (safely!) you may see that dropping a lit match into gasoline often extinguishes it. Depending on the ambient environment—the wind, temperature, how much gasoline, etc.
        callalex 3y ago
        I have seen it happen, because I did it as a young scout. The spill was ignited by a nearby lit stove. You are right that it’s nothing like the movies. It wasn’t a particularly dangerous situation or anything, I just looked and felt like a fool.
- ghaff 3y ago
  There are liquid fuel camp stoves. White gas is the usual but there are models that will burn pretty much anything. Propane/butane also don't work very well in cold weather although some fuel mixes are better.
- dharmab 3y ago
  Sometimes motorcycle campers still use them so they can combine their cooking fuel supply and emergency fuel supply
- mjhay 3y ago
  There's plenty of liquid fuel stoves around, although butane/propane is probably more common. I like them because the fuel is cheaper and more available, and you can reuse the containers. The downside is they must be "primed" by preheating the with a bit of liquid fuel, so that the fuel comes out vaporized. I prefer kerosene/diesel over white gas/gasoline because it runs a bit hotter and is safer (at the cost of more difficult priming). Liquid fuel stoves can also be run in very cold temperatures, where butane mixtures or propane stop working.
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    When I was in Boy Scouts the stoves were all white gas, similar to gasoline from the gas station but burns a bit cleaner because it's more refined and without any additives. Less generically also called "Coleman fuel." But the stoves will happily burn regular gasoline if you have to.
- time0ut 3y ago
  I have a Coleman duel fuel camping stove. It can run on gasoline. It has a small reservoir. The screw on cap doubles as a hand pump to pressurize it. Fairly common style for backpacking where size and weight are critical and you don’t want to carry a separate gas cylinder (as a personal preference).
- carabiner 3y ago
  Whisperlite international does
- mauvehaus 3y ago
  There are both, and they have their trade offs. Canister stoves use propane or a propane-butane mix. The stoves tend to be less expensive, and the fuel more expensive. Canister stoves also range in weight from very little to nearly nothing. You'll also find integrated cooking systems with a pot that matches a stove. Those claim higher efficiency at the expense of increased weight. (Edited to add) Liquid fuel stoves have better cold weather performance, and are popular in mountaineering for that reason. I am not a mountaineer and rarely camp cold enough that I need the cold weather performance. Canisters will do down to 20F/-6C with even minimal care. Liquid fuel stoves burn a variety of fuels, but white gas is a common one. Pump gas burns a little dirtier than white gas, but the upside of a stove that'll safely burn pump gas is that the fuel is available everywhere. Canisters and white gas often require a camping store, or at least a well-stocked Walmart. If you're outside of areas with a lot of demand for canister fuel, a stove that burns pump gas is a godsend. The canister situation has gotten enormously easier with the near-universal adoption of EN 417[1] canisters by manufacturers. Prior to that, there were a lot of incompatible standards. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_417 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_417
  - xattt 3y ago
    > Pump gas burns a little dirtier than white gas, but the upside of a stove that'll safely burn pump gas is that the fuel is available everywhere. How does exposure of food to benzene vapours from gasoline factor into safety? I feel like using gasoline for cooking food would be a fuel of last-resort.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      We never grilled over our white gas stoves, we just used them to heat a pot. The flame is pretty hot, and isn't benzene pretty flammable? There probably isn't a lot left floating around.
      - xattt 3y ago
        I’ve got an MSR Whisperlight stove that does kerosene/diesel and white gas/gasoline using different nozzles. It’s a heck of a lot more lighter that lugging a propane cooktop around. I did a double-take when I read that you can use gasoline.
- grecy 3y ago
  I used this gasoline stove when I drove Alaska-Argentina, around Africa and around Australia [1] - Gasoline is everywhere, other sources are not. Plenty of countries also has their own propane bottle fittings, so getting a bottle filled from what ever country you bought it in while touring can be a nightmare. I've met people who carry a bag with 15 adapters, and I still watched propane flow out onto the ground in Argentina after visiting 6 stations with them. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi4opxsQmn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi4opxsQmn0
- reaperman 3y ago
  The most common camp stoves do use pressurized gases like you're mentioning. However, this is a relatively modern invention -- historically (pre-1980?) most camp stoves operated on liquid fuels ... in the 1950's to 1970's this was "white gas" due to being particularly clean burning. Before that, kerosene was popular. MSR is a top-tier camping gear manufacturer and they specialize in making stoves which can be fueled using damn near any fuel[0] (gas AND liquid!). These can burn: - The pressurized canister gas you're talking about (any proportion blends of propane, isobutane, n-butane) - White gas ("Naphtha", "Coleman liquid camping fuel", C5 to C12) - Kerosene ("Paraffin oil", "Lamp Oil", C10 to C16) - Unleaded gasoline (C7 to C12, nominally) - Diesel (C12 to C16, nominally) - Aviation gasoline ("Avgas" or 100LL) - Jet Fuel (JP-A, JP-4, JP-8) - Mineral spirits (C9 to C12) - Alcohols (Typically ethanol but in a pinch isopropyl or methanol would probably "work" as well but should be considered to bring safety issues) And they might, sometimes, also work with biodiesels and plant oils (e.g. vegetable oil, olive oil), though they are not rated for this. Serious adventurers across the undeveloped world rely on these types of stoves because you can never be sure what kind of fuel you'll be able to get. 0: https://www.msrgear.com/blog/liquid-fuel-stoves-101-choosing-the-right-fuel-for-your-liquid-fuel-stove/ https://www.msrgear.com/blog/liquid-fuel-stoves-101-choosing...
  - sterlind 3y ago
    is it.. safe to burn leaded fuel on your camping stove?
    - mikestew 3y ago
      As a general rule, it's not safe to burn leaded fuel at all. that's why MSR specified "unleaded". Though in the U. S. it's moot as you'd have to go out of your way to find leaded gasoline. I also view the fuels other than white gas to be a matter of necessity. IOW, no white gas, so I guess we'll use the kerosene that's more readily available. But last time I saw a multi-fuel stove in such a scenario, it involved changing the jet, and the stove didn't seem to burn quite as cleanly. That might have changed in the last 20 years, but I just stick with white gas.
- m463 3y ago
  I remember a jay leno episode where he talked about old VW beetles that had gasoline heaters to warm the occupants quickly.
  - ehnto 3y ago
    Diesel heaters are common in van conversions now, not nearly as dangerous as gasoline I guess.
  - speed_spread 3y ago
    It was not about warming quickly, it was because Beetles have an air cooled engine. The engine's waste heat is thus difficultly recyclable compared to a liquid cooled engine which allows circulating the coolant through a heat exchanger to heat up the cabin's air. Also the Beetle's engine is rear-mounted so even if you could heat up the air with fins on the engine block, bringing heat to the front of the cabin would require much piping making it impractical and ineffective. Hence the gasoline heater. Similarly, electric cars don't produce waste heat and so the heater also gets its power from the same power source as the engine, the battery.
SilasX 3y ago
[flagged]
- reaperman 3y ago
  > Was this at a time when gas was cheap Just to be clear, they're not talking about filling up his vehicle, they're talking about topping off their <1L camp stove, which they may have only used 20% of but want it to be full for the upcoming nights of camping. It's feasible they both only needed $0.25 of fuel to top it off, and also that the extra $0.25 of fuel could make the difference over a 4-6 night stay. As for sliding a quarter, often gas stations have a barrier between the customer and the proprietor, necessitating one party or the other to do some sliding of coins at some point during the transaction. GP could have placed the quarter near the slot without sliding, but the clerk would still have to reach past the slot and slide it towards them.
  - SilasX 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ubermonkey 3y ago
      You seem nice.
    - reaperman 3y ago
      20% of a liter is $0.25 -- There are cases when you're traveling/camping that you may have used 20% of your 1L can but need to refill it for the next leg of camping. If I was buying $0.25 of gasoline I'd be slightly weird about it too, at least to acknowledge / show awareness that the situation is indeed strange. Doing it in the same non-plussed manner as I buy $20 of gas would seem more awkward to me than adding in a touch of bashfulness. Adding additional social cues that something is unique about the transaction can also head off clerical errors like processing my request as "oh he clearly meant $25, not 25 cents".

Kye 3y ago

I thought those used butane or propane. I've never heard of one that uses gasoline.

zikduruqe 3y ago
Into the rabbit hole ye shall go. https://youtu.be/D_qFWoa_HR4?t=601 https://youtu.be/D_qFWoa_HR4?t=601
loeg 3y ago
Butane and propane are not liquid fuels at standard temperature/pressure; they're pressurized gases. You would not be able to fill them at a gas station pump. GP is talking about an old "white gas" stove (white gas is just gasoline without additives) which were popular before propane stoves dominated over the last 20 years.
- dietrichepp 3y ago
  I’ll add that, my guess, the reason people don’t use white gas as much is because the stoves are more difficult to use. You have to pump them, go through a warmup stage, and keep them level. I don’t know the exact terminology for the parts, I just know the process, since I always used a white gas stove.
  - loeg 3y ago
    Right, I've used white gas stoves in the past. Propane cans sized for camping may have also became easier or cheaper to buy over time, although that's pure speculation.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Small propane tanks have been widely-available for car camping for a long time but the tanks are fairly heavy for backpacking or bike touring. Pre-LED lamps you also saw them used a lot in lanterns. What has happened in the US is that other gas cylinder stoves have become more common (and maybe more standardized per another comment).
  - callalex 3y ago
    They also have a higher potential to spill, and the gas doesn’t go away into the atmosphere very quickly so you can end up setting your picnic bench on fire.
    - dietrichepp 3y ago
      Have you seen this happen? It is surprisingly difficult—not impossible, just difficult—to light a small gas spill on fire. The reason that gas stoves are difficult to work with is because the flame so easily goes out. Under the right circumstances, gasoline will ignite, and the gas stove is designed to make that just barely possible. The picnic bench is a less ideal environment for lighting gasoline on fire. The movies make it look like you can just drop a match or lighter onto some spilled gasoline and get a raging inferno, but if you actually try to do this yourself (safely!) you may see that dropping a lit match into gasoline often extinguishes it. Depending on the ambient environment—the wind, temperature, how much gasoline, etc.
      - callalex 3y ago
        I have seen it happen, because I did it as a young scout. The spill was ignited by a nearby lit stove. You are right that it’s nothing like the movies. It wasn’t a particularly dangerous situation or anything, I just looked and felt like a fool.
ghaff 3y ago
There are liquid fuel camp stoves. White gas is the usual but there are models that will burn pretty much anything. Propane/butane also don't work very well in cold weather although some fuel mixes are better.
dharmab 3y ago
Sometimes motorcycle campers still use them so they can combine their cooking fuel supply and emergency fuel supply
mjhay 3y ago
There's plenty of liquid fuel stoves around, although butane/propane is probably more common. I like them because the fuel is cheaper and more available, and you can reuse the containers. The downside is they must be "primed" by preheating the with a bit of liquid fuel, so that the fuel comes out vaporized. I prefer kerosene/diesel over white gas/gasoline because it runs a bit hotter and is safer (at the cost of more difficult priming). Liquid fuel stoves can also be run in very cold temperatures, where butane mixtures or propane stop working.
- wlesieutre 3y ago
  When I was in Boy Scouts the stoves were all white gas, similar to gasoline from the gas station but burns a bit cleaner because it's more refined and without any additives. Less generically also called "Coleman fuel." But the stoves will happily burn regular gasoline if you have to.
time0ut 3y ago
I have a Coleman duel fuel camping stove. It can run on gasoline. It has a small reservoir. The screw on cap doubles as a hand pump to pressurize it. Fairly common style for backpacking where size and weight are critical and you don’t want to carry a separate gas cylinder (as a personal preference).
carabiner 3y ago
Whisperlite international does
mauvehaus 3y ago
There are both, and they have their trade offs. Canister stoves use propane or a propane-butane mix. The stoves tend to be less expensive, and the fuel more expensive. Canister stoves also range in weight from very little to nearly nothing. You'll also find integrated cooking systems with a pot that matches a stove. Those claim higher efficiency at the expense of increased weight. (Edited to add) Liquid fuel stoves have better cold weather performance, and are popular in mountaineering for that reason. I am not a mountaineer and rarely camp cold enough that I need the cold weather performance. Canisters will do down to 20F/-6C with even minimal care. Liquid fuel stoves burn a variety of fuels, but white gas is a common one. Pump gas burns a little dirtier than white gas, but the upside of a stove that'll safely burn pump gas is that the fuel is available everywhere. Canisters and white gas often require a camping store, or at least a well-stocked Walmart. If you're outside of areas with a lot of demand for canister fuel, a stove that burns pump gas is a godsend. The canister situation has gotten enormously easier with the near-universal adoption of EN 417[1] canisters by manufacturers. Prior to that, there were a lot of incompatible standards. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_417 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_417
- xattt 3y ago
  > Pump gas burns a little dirtier than white gas, but the upside of a stove that'll safely burn pump gas is that the fuel is available everywhere. How does exposure of food to benzene vapours from gasoline factor into safety? I feel like using gasoline for cooking food would be a fuel of last-resort.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    We never grilled over our white gas stoves, we just used them to heat a pot. The flame is pretty hot, and isn't benzene pretty flammable? There probably isn't a lot left floating around.
    - xattt 3y ago
      I’ve got an MSR Whisperlight stove that does kerosene/diesel and white gas/gasoline using different nozzles. It’s a heck of a lot more lighter that lugging a propane cooktop around. I did a double-take when I read that you can use gasoline.
grecy 3y ago
I used this gasoline stove when I drove Alaska-Argentina, around Africa and around Australia [1] - Gasoline is everywhere, other sources are not. Plenty of countries also has their own propane bottle fittings, so getting a bottle filled from what ever country you bought it in while touring can be a nightmare. I've met people who carry a bag with 15 adapters, and I still watched propane flow out onto the ground in Argentina after visiting 6 stations with them. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi4opxsQmn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi4opxsQmn0
reaperman 3y ago
The most common camp stoves do use pressurized gases like you're mentioning. However, this is a relatively modern invention -- historically (pre-1980?) most camp stoves operated on liquid fuels ... in the 1950's to 1970's this was "white gas" due to being particularly clean burning. Before that, kerosene was popular. MSR is a top-tier camping gear manufacturer and they specialize in making stoves which can be fueled using damn near any fuel[0] (gas AND liquid!). These can burn: - The pressurized canister gas you're talking about (any proportion blends of propane, isobutane, n-butane) - White gas ("Naphtha", "Coleman liquid camping fuel", C5 to C12) - Kerosene ("Paraffin oil", "Lamp Oil", C10 to C16) - Unleaded gasoline (C7 to C12, nominally) - Diesel (C12 to C16, nominally) - Aviation gasoline ("Avgas" or 100LL) - Jet Fuel (JP-A, JP-4, JP-8) - Mineral spirits (C9 to C12) - Alcohols (Typically ethanol but in a pinch isopropyl or methanol would probably "work" as well but should be considered to bring safety issues) And they might, sometimes, also work with biodiesels and plant oils (e.g. vegetable oil, olive oil), though they are not rated for this. Serious adventurers across the undeveloped world rely on these types of stoves because you can never be sure what kind of fuel you'll be able to get. 0: https://www.msrgear.com/blog/liquid-fuel-stoves-101-choosing-the-right-fuel-for-your-liquid-fuel-stove/ https://www.msrgear.com/blog/liquid-fuel-stoves-101-choosing...
- sterlind 3y ago
  is it.. safe to burn leaded fuel on your camping stove?
  - mikestew 3y ago
    As a general rule, it's not safe to burn leaded fuel at all. that's why MSR specified "unleaded". Though in the U. S. it's moot as you'd have to go out of your way to find leaded gasoline. I also view the fuels other than white gas to be a matter of necessity. IOW, no white gas, so I guess we'll use the kerosene that's more readily available. But last time I saw a multi-fuel stove in such a scenario, it involved changing the jet, and the stove didn't seem to burn quite as cleanly. That might have changed in the last 20 years, but I just stick with white gas.
m463 3y ago
I remember a jay leno episode where he talked about old VW beetles that had gasoline heaters to warm the occupants quickly.
- ehnto 3y ago
  Diesel heaters are common in van conversions now, not nearly as dangerous as gasoline I guess.
- speed_spread 3y ago
  It was not about warming quickly, it was because Beetles have an air cooled engine. The engine's waste heat is thus difficultly recyclable compared to a liquid cooled engine which allows circulating the coolant through a heat exchanger to heat up the cabin's air. Also the Beetle's engine is rear-mounted so even if you could heat up the air with fins on the engine block, bringing heat to the front of the cabin would require much piping making it impractical and ineffective. Hence the gasoline heater. Similarly, electric cars don't produce waste heat and so the heater also gets its power from the same power source as the engine, the battery.

SilasX 3y ago

[flagged]

reaperman 3y ago
> Was this at a time when gas was cheap Just to be clear, they're not talking about filling up his vehicle, they're talking about topping off their <1L camp stove, which they may have only used 20% of but want it to be full for the upcoming nights of camping. It's feasible they both only needed $0.25 of fuel to top it off, and also that the extra $0.25 of fuel could make the difference over a 4-6 night stay. As for sliding a quarter, often gas stations have a barrier between the customer and the proprietor, necessitating one party or the other to do some sliding of coins at some point during the transaction. GP could have placed the quarter near the slot without sliding, but the clerk would still have to reach past the slot and slide it towards them.
- SilasX 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ubermonkey 3y ago
    You seem nice.
  - reaperman 3y ago
    20% of a liter is $0.25 -- There are cases when you're traveling/camping that you may have used 20% of your 1L can but need to refill it for the next leg of camping. If I was buying $0.25 of gasoline I'd be slightly weird about it too, at least to acknowledge / show awareness that the situation is indeed strange. Doing it in the same non-plussed manner as I buy $20 of gas would seem more awkward to me than adding in a touch of bashfulness. Adding additional social cues that something is unique about the transaction can also head off clerical errors like processing my request as "oh he clearly meant $25, not 25 cents".