6 ms·

> Although the laser system was not directly tested with an orbiting satellite, they accomplished high-data transmission over a free-space distance of 53km (33

> Although the laser system was not directly tested with an orbiting satellite, they accomplished high-data transmission over a free-space distance of 53km (33 miles). This is peanuts compared to under sea cables and issues you will find penetrating atmosphere and increasingly, space. We should keep under sea cables and work on additional connections to make our networks more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage.

pushfoo 3y ago
> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to satellites, fiber optic cables seem like they'd be relatively unaffected even if the equipment attached to them needs replacement.
- zamfi 3y ago
  Perhaps the ocean is protective to some degree, but beyond very short lengths undersea cables have powered repeaters that draw considerable current, and which would plausibly be destroyed if the base stations are too.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    I would not say "very short lengths", because undersea cables without powered repeaters (only with optical amplifiers) are possible until a few hundred kilometer. But you are right that transoceanic cables need powered repeaters.
- CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
  Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.
  - giobox 3y ago
    Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech: > https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satellite-in-asat-weapon-test-threatens-space-station-with-debris.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell...
    - CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
      "Kinetic kill" is arguably easier to detect and harder to deny. I haven't said that we should only focus on sea cables, I said that we should do both so that the overall reliability and resiliency increases.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      Can those be deployed "anonymously" though? Publicly destroying another nation's satellite would be an act of war. Quietly and secretly cutting an undersea cable, while being able to plausibly deflect blame, is a bit safer.
    - wcoenen 3y ago
      Also, India. List of anti-satellite tests: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tbl1/AS:11431281117593250@1675470275795/List-of-anti-satellite-tests-conducted-by-different-nations.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tb...
    - elzbardico 3y ago
      The problem is that it is fairly difficult to do it cleanly without risking precipitating Kessler syndrome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome It is basically automatic MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) out there in space.
- piyh 3y ago
  Are solar storms an issue for LEO sats?
- Beached 3y ago
  yeah, but having both means if one is a victim, the other keeps chugging along. a bad anchor drag take out cables? or a sub cut the wire? lasers go pew pew. weather take out lasers? cables go zoom. and in normal operating conditions, both go and increase bandwidth and speed
dermesser 3y ago
It's not peanuts at all, given that it's an entirely different technology. Free space optics will have different applications, of course, but those applications where fiber is currently not feasible stand to profit quite a bit from this.
- Beached 3y ago
  I can think of all of rural America underserved with fast internet, forced to share puny fiber runs to towers retransmitting over low speed radio. implementing the same infra, but using lasers as the backbone could speed up a large area of the country, make rolling out dense radio networks like 5g way faster and cheaper, etc.

pushfoo 3y ago

> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to satellites, fiber optic cables seem like they'd be relatively unaffected even if the equipment attached to them needs replacement.

zamfi 3y ago
Perhaps the ocean is protective to some degree, but beyond very short lengths undersea cables have powered repeaters that draw considerable current, and which would plausibly be destroyed if the base stations are too.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  I would not say "very short lengths", because undersea cables without powered repeaters (only with optical amplifiers) are possible until a few hundred kilometer. But you are right that transoceanic cables need powered repeaters.
CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
Currently, you can cut internet connections to most countries with a small deep water sub. China, for example, was busy building one that can be used at 10k+ depth and has arms.
- giobox 3y ago
  Its widely assumed China, Russia and the US have "kinetic kill" abilities on satellites in space too, its just capabilities are not as widely known. Projects Like the US/Boeing X-37 space drone etc, whose purposes still haven't really been revealed: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37 Russia has already demonstrated its satellite destroying tech: > https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satellite-in-asat-weapon-test-threatens-space-station-with-debris.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/11/16/russia-blows-up-satell...
  - CAP_NET_ADMIN 3y ago
    "Kinetic kill" is arguably easier to detect and harder to deny. I haven't said that we should only focus on sea cables, I said that we should do both so that the overall reliability and resiliency increases.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Can those be deployed "anonymously" though? Publicly destroying another nation's satellite would be an act of war. Quietly and secretly cutting an undersea cable, while being able to plausibly deflect blame, is a bit safer.
  - wcoenen 3y ago
    Also, India. List of anti-satellite tests: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tbl1/AS:11431281117593250@1675470275795/List-of-anti-satellite-tests-conducted-by-different-nations.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/368223169/figure/tb...
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    The problem is that it is fairly difficult to do it cleanly without risking precipitating Kessler syndrome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome It is basically automatic MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) out there in space.
piyh 3y ago
Are solar storms an issue for LEO sats?
Beached 3y ago
yeah, but having both means if one is a victim, the other keeps chugging along. a bad anchor drag take out cables? or a sub cut the wire? lasers go pew pew. weather take out lasers? cables go zoom. and in normal operating conditions, both go and increase bandwidth and speed

dermesser 3y ago

It's not peanuts at all, given that it's an entirely different technology. Free space optics will have different applications, of course, but those applications where fiber is currently not feasible stand to profit quite a bit from this.

Beached 3y ago
I can think of all of rural America underserved with fast internet, forced to share puny fiber runs to towers retransmitting over low speed radio. implementing the same infra, but using lasers as the backbone could speed up a large area of the country, make rolling out dense radio networks like 5g way faster and cheaper, etc.