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Walking and on their phones, too. In recent years I've seen people step into intersections while on their phone without even looking up. Edit: anyone who disa

by retrac 3y ago

Walking and on their phones, too. In recent years I've seen people step into intersections while on their phone without even looking up. Edit: anyone who disagrees and has downvoted me care to explain why? I wrote the comment from the perspective a pedestrian. I don't even drive! Some cities consider it such problem they've talked about making it illegal to walk around in the street looking at your phone: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/20/us/new-york-walking-while-texting-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/20/us/new-york-walking-while-tex...

wnolens 3y ago
It's blaming the victim? I see this very often as well, but you're not operating a several ton vehicle. At worst you run into some kid and knock his ice cream over. It's the presence of cars, their prioritization in our infrastructure, and unenforced laws surrounding them that are the problem.
- retrac 3y ago
  It takes two to not get run over. I'm deaf. So I really do not have the luxury of just hoping others see me. I have to be real careful in traffic. Is it fair? Not really. I care more about not being run over than whether it's fair.
  - ch4s3 3y ago
    > It takes two to not get run over. Who thinks like this? Seriously what is wrong with you? Large SUVs have blind spots larger than people, and fatal crashes are generally happening in cross walks in cities. They often happen when vehicles are turning. Blaming pedestrians is just fucking awful. [EDIT] I checked the data again most strikes are happening in urban areas in places where there is no crosswalk or on shoulders. So largely due t infrastructure placing pedestrians and cars in contention.
    - retrac 3y ago
      Someone who has been hit by a car twice. That's who thinks like that. I do not step into traffic without carefully looking every direction, to the horizon, for any vehicle that might move in my direction. Should I have to live like this? No. Do I live like this because I want to keep living? Yes. Somehow the people in this thread have interpreted this observation as a justification that it's okay. Don't know why, really. Is it victim blaming to suggest locking ones' doors? Obviously we shouldn't have any thieves. How dare someone suggest measures that might reduce the ability of malevolent parties to harm you.
      - ch4s3 3y ago
        You're still victim blaming, having been hit by a car doesn't magically absolve you for have a rancid opinion. No one is advocating that pedestrians don't take precautions, this is a total straw man. People are calling for better, safer infrastructure and enforcement around unsafe driving and you're blaming walking while texting. Your claim is unsupported by evidence.
        appleiigs 3y ago
        There's a saying with motorcycles: "you can be right, or you can be dead". If you want pie-in-sky thinking, sure victims are never to blame. But if you want to be realistic about safety, it doesn't matter who is correct or who has right-of-way, you do what have to be safe. We teach children to look both ways before crossing the street - not to blame them, but to keep them alive. You're being quite close minded on this.
        ch4s3 3y ago
        It isn't pie in the sky thinking to say that major metros in Europe don't have the problems that NYC has in terms of pedestrian deaths.
    - robswc 3y ago
      >generally happening in cross walks in cities Do you have a source for this?
- missedthecue 3y ago
  I think his point is that the graveyard is full of people who had the right of way. I don't think he's victim blaming, only saying that following the rules is not enough, you have to make sure everyone else is following and react proactively if they are not. Using your phone around heavy machinery like automobiles is simply not enough, even if the pedestrian crossing light is green. You can say this is wrong and unfair and horrible, etc... but ignoring it is not going to help you.
youreincorrect 3y ago
I agree, but with the noted caveat that pedestrians who are completely oblivious to their surroundings are usually only a danger to themselves, whereas drivers who are even somewhat oblivious to their surroundings can be far more dangerous. When I lived in SF, I saw this constantly btw. I probably saved on guy's life who saw a walk sign turn on at an intersection, proceeded to look at his phone, and stepped into the intersection. Meanwhile a car was running the red light at a fast speed (it was crossing Market somewhere up near 2nd Street), so I had to tug this guy by the back of his shirt to prevent him from getting creamed. And he actually gave me an annoyed look. This was sometime around 2015 though, so just an anecdote that doesn't have much to do with the data in the article.
systems_glitch 3y ago
Used to see them walk into lamp posts, sign posts, bollards, etc.
ch4s3 3y ago
You're being down voted because of your odious victim blaming. Moreover, CDC data shows alcohol being the leading cause of fatal crashes where a vehicle strikes a pedestrian. Texting by pedestrians doesn't even register in the statistics. Furthermore, no city is making it illegal to text while walking, that would be fucking absurd. The law proposed in the article you cited was proposed by State Senator John Liu who is a joke, and it never went anywhere. Blaming pedestrians for bad infrastructure and giant cars is a super dickish, car-brained take. European cities don't have the same problems and people are no less likely to text and walk in those places.
- retrac 3y ago
  I am not American. I am not a driver. I detest car-centric urban design. It's fascinating how many of the replies require you or other commenters to rely heavily on straw men and false assumptions (like assuming American nationality) to twist reading my comment from its anodyne straightforward interpretation (look where you're going) into some sort of apologia for "car-brained dickishness". It's quite amazing. If everyone who stepped into traffic while looking at their phones looked up first, fewer people would be hit by cars. I stand by this dickish, car-brained statement.
  - ch4s3 3y ago
    There's no evidence anywhere at all as far as I can tell that cell phone usage by pedestrians is a driver of fatal crashes. People assumed an American perspective because you posted a parochial article abut New York state. And you're just being an asshole.
kashunstva 3y ago
Personally, I’m a careful no-phones driver and an equally careful pedestrian especially in high density environments. But I’ve lost count of the number of pedestrians who are waiting at an intersection, and lose situational awareness while looking down at their phones and based on some incorrect cue in their peripheral vision step out into traffic. (Is that the most common scenario where a car injures a pedestrian? No; but it’s an empirical observation.) I suspect your downvotes are coming from readers who interpret it as some kind of victim-blaming because of the asymmetry in forces involved. Let’s just acknowledge this is a multifactorial problem and that there are going to be interventions from both the pedestrian and driver perspectives that keep people safe.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
Walking and texting isn't dangerous on its own. A person bumping into someone because of texting, while annoying, has close to 0 ability to cause serious harm when compared to drivers doing the same. I think the downvotes come from the fact that this argument is used as a relatively dumb anti-pedestrian rant in a lot of places. Frequently the pedestrian is "stepping into the road" where they have right of way (which in a lot of cities is any uncontrolled/unlighted intersection, regardless of whether a crosswalk is painted), and the car driver is loathe to admit that they didn't want to stop or didn't know that the pedestrian has right of way. As a pro-cycling and pro-pedestrian person, my feeling is that walking and texting is just a red-herring complaint that is not the cause of any sort of serious problems. Putting it into the same bucket as distracted driving, which is VERY dangerous, and has a death toll attached feels disingenuous. Its like comparing a scraped knee to cancer. One of those is a serious problem killing lots of people, one of them is not. Even though both should be treated medically, we shouldn't be talking about them in the same context.
fzeroracer 3y ago
Do you ever consider why the problem of rising pedestrian deaths is a US oddity? Or do you simply think that smartphones etc don't exist in Europe?
- retrac 3y ago
  Pedestrian deaths have been increasing in many countries. It is not a US-specific phenomenon.

by retrac 3y ago

wnolens 3y ago

It's blaming the victim? I see this very often as well, but you're not operating a several ton vehicle. At worst you run into some kid and knock his ice cream over. It's the presence of cars, their prioritization in our infrastructure, and unenforced laws surrounding them that are the problem.

retrac 3y ago
It takes two to not get run over. I'm deaf. So I really do not have the luxury of just hoping others see me. I have to be real careful in traffic. Is it fair? Not really. I care more about not being run over than whether it's fair.
- ch4s3 3y ago
  > It takes two to not get run over. Who thinks like this? Seriously what is wrong with you? Large SUVs have blind spots larger than people, and fatal crashes are generally happening in cross walks in cities. They often happen when vehicles are turning. Blaming pedestrians is just fucking awful. [EDIT] I checked the data again most strikes are happening in urban areas in places where there is no crosswalk or on shoulders. So largely due t infrastructure placing pedestrians and cars in contention.
  - retrac 3y ago
    Someone who has been hit by a car twice. That's who thinks like that. I do not step into traffic without carefully looking every direction, to the horizon, for any vehicle that might move in my direction. Should I have to live like this? No. Do I live like this because I want to keep living? Yes. Somehow the people in this thread have interpreted this observation as a justification that it's okay. Don't know why, really. Is it victim blaming to suggest locking ones' doors? Obviously we shouldn't have any thieves. How dare someone suggest measures that might reduce the ability of malevolent parties to harm you.
    - ch4s3 3y ago
      You're still victim blaming, having been hit by a car doesn't magically absolve you for have a rancid opinion. No one is advocating that pedestrians don't take precautions, this is a total straw man. People are calling for better, safer infrastructure and enforcement around unsafe driving and you're blaming walking while texting. Your claim is unsupported by evidence.
      - appleiigs 3y ago
        There's a saying with motorcycles: "you can be right, or you can be dead". If you want pie-in-sky thinking, sure victims are never to blame. But if you want to be realistic about safety, it doesn't matter who is correct or who has right-of-way, you do what have to be safe. We teach children to look both ways before crossing the street - not to blame them, but to keep them alive. You're being quite close minded on this.
        ch4s3 3y ago
        It isn't pie in the sky thinking to say that major metros in Europe don't have the problems that NYC has in terms of pedestrian deaths.
  - robswc 3y ago
    >generally happening in cross walks in cities Do you have a source for this?
missedthecue 3y ago
I think his point is that the graveyard is full of people who had the right of way. I don't think he's victim blaming, only saying that following the rules is not enough, you have to make sure everyone else is following and react proactively if they are not. Using your phone around heavy machinery like automobiles is simply not enough, even if the pedestrian crossing light is green. You can say this is wrong and unfair and horrible, etc... but ignoring it is not going to help you.

youreincorrect 3y ago

I agree, but with the noted caveat that pedestrians who are completely oblivious to their surroundings are usually only a danger to themselves, whereas drivers who are even somewhat oblivious to their surroundings can be far more dangerous. When I lived in SF, I saw this constantly btw. I probably saved on guy's life who saw a walk sign turn on at an intersection, proceeded to look at his phone, and stepped into the intersection. Meanwhile a car was running the red light at a fast speed (it was crossing Market somewhere up near 2nd Street), so I had to tug this guy by the back of his shirt to prevent him from getting creamed. And he actually gave me an annoyed look. This was sometime around 2015 though, so just an anecdote that doesn't have much to do with the data in the article.

systems_glitch 3y ago

Used to see them walk into lamp posts, sign posts, bollards, etc.

ch4s3 3y ago

You're being down voted because of your odious victim blaming. Moreover, CDC data shows alcohol being the leading cause of fatal crashes where a vehicle strikes a pedestrian. Texting by pedestrians doesn't even register in the statistics. Furthermore, no city is making it illegal to text while walking, that would be fucking absurd. The law proposed in the article you cited was proposed by State Senator John Liu who is a joke, and it never went anywhere. Blaming pedestrians for bad infrastructure and giant cars is a super dickish, car-brained take. European cities don't have the same problems and people are no less likely to text and walk in those places.

retrac 3y ago
I am not American. I am not a driver. I detest car-centric urban design. It's fascinating how many of the replies require you or other commenters to rely heavily on straw men and false assumptions (like assuming American nationality) to twist reading my comment from its anodyne straightforward interpretation (look where you're going) into some sort of apologia for "car-brained dickishness". It's quite amazing. If everyone who stepped into traffic while looking at their phones looked up first, fewer people would be hit by cars. I stand by this dickish, car-brained statement.
- ch4s3 3y ago
  There's no evidence anywhere at all as far as I can tell that cell phone usage by pedestrians is a driver of fatal crashes. People assumed an American perspective because you posted a parochial article abut New York state. And you're just being an asshole.

kashunstva 3y ago

Personally, I’m a careful no-phones driver and an equally careful pedestrian especially in high density environments. But I’ve lost count of the number of pedestrians who are waiting at an intersection, and lose situational awareness while looking down at their phones and based on some incorrect cue in their peripheral vision step out into traffic. (Is that the most common scenario where a car injures a pedestrian? No; but it’s an empirical observation.) I suspect your downvotes are coming from readers who interpret it as some kind of victim-blaming because of the asymmetry in forces involved. Let’s just acknowledge this is a multifactorial problem and that there are going to be interventions from both the pedestrian and driver perspectives that keep people safe.

dghlsakjg 3y ago

Walking and texting isn't dangerous on its own. A person bumping into someone because of texting, while annoying, has close to 0 ability to cause serious harm when compared to drivers doing the same. I think the downvotes come from the fact that this argument is used as a relatively dumb anti-pedestrian rant in a lot of places. Frequently the pedestrian is "stepping into the road" where they have right of way (which in a lot of cities is any uncontrolled/unlighted intersection, regardless of whether a crosswalk is painted), and the car driver is loathe to admit that they didn't want to stop or didn't know that the pedestrian has right of way. As a pro-cycling and pro-pedestrian person, my feeling is that walking and texting is just a red-herring complaint that is not the cause of any sort of serious problems. Putting it into the same bucket as distracted driving, which is VERY dangerous, and has a death toll attached feels disingenuous. Its like comparing a scraped knee to cancer. One of those is a serious problem killing lots of people, one of them is not. Even though both should be treated medically, we shouldn't be talking about them in the same context.

fzeroracer 3y ago

Do you ever consider why the problem of rising pedestrian deaths is a US oddity? Or do you simply think that smartphones etc don't exist in Europe?

retrac 3y ago
Pedestrian deaths have been increasing in many countries. It is not a US-specific phenomenon.