4 ms·

Is childbirth an innate human right? Why don't you think you need your unborn child's consent before birthing them?

by zkelvin 3y ago

naasking 3y ago
> Why don't you think you need your unborn child's consent before birthing them? That question is incoherent.
- zkelvin 3y ago
  It's a perfectly coherent question! I'd kindly ask that you try to comply with Hacker News's guidelines about engaging in kind dialogue, and specifically the line "please don't post shallow dismissals". Here's what I consider to be a simpler question to answer: do you think people have the right to give birth to a child whose existence would be only horrible, endless suffering before eventually succumbing to death? This isn't just a hypothetical: people tend to agree that a parents who are at high chance of birthing a child with a terrible genetic disease probably shouldn't take that risk (or, at least, should protect against it with some preimplantation genetic testing). But everyone suffers at least a little bit at some point in their life. If you don't think people have a right to birth children whose lives would be pure suffering, but you do think people have a right to birth children who would suffer at least a little bit in their lives, then how do you justify one but not the other? Is there some threshold amount of misery which you think is okay to inflict on someone without their consent? There may be some other moral framework or argument which articulately justifies this, and I'm genuinely curious to see if someone has come up with an interesting answer to the question.
JustBreath 3y ago
Pretty much. Unless you've worked out how to obtain consent from someone that doesn't exist either we create kids without their consent or society ends.
- zkelvin 3y ago
  Inability to obtain consent does not imply consent. Do you consider the continuation of our society to be more important than respecting consent?
syncbehind 3y ago
>Why don't you think you need your unborn child's consent before birthing them? Is this satire?
- zkelvin 3y ago
  It's a legitimate question! Many people wish they had never been born. What right do you have to force such a person into existence without their consent?
  - syncbehind 3y ago
    In the absence of someone's ability to give consent - ie. Informed consent in medical terms- the responsibility is assumed by the parents or guardian. Since an infant or fetus is unable to provide consent, why would you think a parent is incapable of doing so? This is a baffling line of thought to me.

Is childbirth an innate human right? Why don't you think you need your unborn child's consent before birthing them?

naasking 3y ago

> Why don't you think you need your unborn child's consent before birthing them? That question is incoherent.

zkelvin 3y ago
It's a perfectly coherent question! I'd kindly ask that you try to comply with Hacker News's guidelines about engaging in kind dialogue, and specifically the line "please don't post shallow dismissals". Here's what I consider to be a simpler question to answer: do you think people have the right to give birth to a child whose existence would be only horrible, endless suffering before eventually succumbing to death? This isn't just a hypothetical: people tend to agree that a parents who are at high chance of birthing a child with a terrible genetic disease probably shouldn't take that risk (or, at least, should protect against it with some preimplantation genetic testing). But everyone suffers at least a little bit at some point in their life. If you don't think people have a right to birth children whose lives would be pure suffering, but you do think people have a right to birth children who would suffer at least a little bit in their lives, then how do you justify one but not the other? Is there some threshold amount of misery which you think is okay to inflict on someone without their consent? There may be some other moral framework or argument which articulately justifies this, and I'm genuinely curious to see if someone has come up with an interesting answer to the question.

JustBreath 3y ago

Pretty much. Unless you've worked out how to obtain consent from someone that doesn't exist either we create kids without their consent or society ends.

zkelvin 3y ago
Inability to obtain consent does not imply consent. Do you consider the continuation of our society to be more important than respecting consent?

syncbehind 3y ago

>Why don't you think you need your unborn child's consent before birthing them? Is this satire?

zkelvin 3y ago
It's a legitimate question! Many people wish they had never been born. What right do you have to force such a person into existence without their consent?
- syncbehind 3y ago
  In the absence of someone's ability to give consent - ie. Informed consent in medical terms- the responsibility is assumed by the parents or guardian. Since an infant or fetus is unable to provide consent, why would you think a parent is incapable of doing so? This is a baffling line of thought to me.