3 ms·

Well, since the number of mainstream outlets investigating Epstein's links to the mega-wealthy with appropriate depth is precisely zero, we need to adjust our s

Well, since the number of mainstream outlets investigating Epstein's links to the mega-wealthy with appropriate depth is precisely zero, we need to adjust our standards a bit. If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

andsoitis 3y ago
> If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it. While there are many statements one can confirm, such as "took up boxing", they are surrounding nuggets like this: "After being selected by a mix of powerful businessmen, many of whom shared connections to intelligence and/or organized crime", a statement which is so vague as to be highly suspicious. And don't even get me started on the author feeling the need to point out that all these organized crime and banking folks are Jewish - what's the relevance? Only to double down on stereotypes - the other people in the story aren't called out for their ancestry or religion...
- mandmandam 3y ago
  In the entire, very long article, there are only three references to Jewishness - twice saying that people had Jewish immigrant parents, and once in reference to the makeup of a particular mob which also references their Italian members, putting the lie to your claim that other ethnic backgrounds are not mentioned. Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear tactic. It's pretty disgusting though, and many Jewish people have pointed out that it's a very harmful and anti-semitic thing to do.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    >Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear tactic. It's pretty disgusting though, and many Jewish people have pointed out that it's a very harmful and anti-semitic thing to do. That ship has long sailed in the US. I don't see this behavior stopping in earnest until the greater populace stops giving any credibility to the claims due to repetitional damage. In fact right now they have become emboldened after the 2020 elections. Meanwhile there is a real rise in anti-semitism that is likely occurring among the far-right. Change is starting to happen online in that every single thread i've been seeing on Reddit/HN that calls out Israel also tends to completely swat away the anti-Semitic claims thrown out when any criticism of Israel typically occurs. Whether this translates into real world changes remains to be seen but we are starting to see it in the voting patterns of Millennials and Gen-Z(them supporting comments made by "the Squad" and electing more reps that don't shy away). It very will likely be a generational shift as Israel continues to damage its reputation in the US due to its tactics.
  - roflyear 3y ago
    Why mention it at all?
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      [flagged]
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
  She specified their ethnicities and countries of origin to describe their relation to the "SuperMob," which was apparently "composed mainly of Jewish and Italian mobsters and businessmen who rose to power thanks to the corruption within the city of Chicago before expanding to other areas of the country, particularly the West Coast." By only denouncing this Dangerous Anti-Semitism and ignoring the equally deplorable Anti-Italianism, you've outed yourself as an Anti-Italian Romanophobe whose opinions may be summarily dismissed. Checkmate.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    Actually, she did not specify the ethnicities of any specific person other than the Jews. If you read the article, you'll notice "Italian" occurring once, but not in relation to a specific person... However, in the opening paragraphs of the "SuperMob" they're sure to mention which specific individuals are Jewish: Crown Prince of the “Super Mob” Henry Krinsky was born in 1896 in the city of Chicago. His father, a Jewish immigrant from Lithuania, worked as a sweatshop foreman and changed the family name to Crown when Henry was a child. After dropping out of school in the 8th grade, Crown started a steel business with his older brother, Sol Crown, in 1915, creating S.R. Crown & Company. A few years later, in 1919, another brother, Irving Crown, joined the company, which became Material Service Corporation (MSC), a sand, gravel, lime and coal business that was prominent in Chicago’s construction industry. Henry Crown developed an early relationship with Jake Arvey, a notorious political fixer for the Democrats in Chicago who, like Crown, was the son of poor Jewish immigrants. Arvey had deep ties to the Chicago mob, including the circles around notorious gangster Al Capone Now, I know also that you're saying I'm being overly sensitive, but I'm trying to point out (when I was asked to disprove the article) that these are signals that I think the article is not to be trusted on face value.
roflyear 3y ago
You realize that isn't how it works, right? It shouldn't be OK to make wild claims without evidence that need to be backed up. It's the other way: you need good evidence to back up wild claims.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  What "wild claim" do you have in mind? The article seemed pretty clear about where evidence was lacking; and is more densely packed with links than >95% of mainstream news articles. Even if one were to completely dismiss everything fta that was even slightly suspect, you'd still have more insight into why JP Morgan might intentionally delete tens of millions of emails. Forty-seven million emails. 47,000,000. "Accidentally". Even if you could believe this - wow - even if you could take that at face value, the fine worth ~45 minutes or so of profit is still preposterous.
  - roflyear 3y ago
    The wild claim from several links in this discussion seem to be some kind of jewish mobster financial conspiracy. How many emails do you think JPM receives a year?

andsoitis 3y ago

> If you can point out anything specific in there that's provably wrong, I'd genuinely love to hear it. While there are many statements one can confirm, such as "took up boxing", they are surrounding nuggets like this: "After being selected by a mix of powerful businessmen, many of whom shared connections to intelligence and/or organized crime", a statement which is so vague as to be highly suspicious. And don't even get me started on the author feeling the need to point out that all these organized crime and banking folks are Jewish - what's the relevance? Only to double down on stereotypes - the other people in the story aren't called out for their ancestry or religion...

mandmandam 3y ago
In the entire, very long article, there are only three references to Jewishness - twice saying that people had Jewish immigrant parents, and once in reference to the makeup of a particular mob which also references their Italian members, putting the lie to your claim that other ethnic backgrounds are not mentioned. Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear tactic. It's pretty disgusting though, and many Jewish people have pointed out that it's a very harmful and anti-semitic thing to do.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  >Making things out to be anti-semitic when they're not, such as happened to Corbyn, is a popular smear tactic. It's pretty disgusting though, and many Jewish people have pointed out that it's a very harmful and anti-semitic thing to do. That ship has long sailed in the US. I don't see this behavior stopping in earnest until the greater populace stops giving any credibility to the claims due to repetitional damage. In fact right now they have become emboldened after the 2020 elections. Meanwhile there is a real rise in anti-semitism that is likely occurring among the far-right. Change is starting to happen online in that every single thread i've been seeing on Reddit/HN that calls out Israel also tends to completely swat away the anti-Semitic claims thrown out when any criticism of Israel typically occurs. Whether this translates into real world changes remains to be seen but we are starting to see it in the voting patterns of Millennials and Gen-Z(them supporting comments made by "the Squad" and electing more reps that don't shy away). It very will likely be a generational shift as Israel continues to damage its reputation in the US due to its tactics.
- roflyear 3y ago
  Why mention it at all?
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    [flagged]
JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
She specified their ethnicities and countries of origin to describe their relation to the "SuperMob," which was apparently "composed mainly of Jewish and Italian mobsters and businessmen who rose to power thanks to the corruption within the city of Chicago before expanding to other areas of the country, particularly the West Coast." By only denouncing this Dangerous Anti-Semitism and ignoring the equally deplorable Anti-Italianism, you've outed yourself as an Anti-Italian Romanophobe whose opinions may be summarily dismissed. Checkmate.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  Actually, she did not specify the ethnicities of any specific person other than the Jews. If you read the article, you'll notice "Italian" occurring once, but not in relation to a specific person... However, in the opening paragraphs of the "SuperMob" they're sure to mention which specific individuals are Jewish: Crown Prince of the “Super Mob” Henry Krinsky was born in 1896 in the city of Chicago. His father, a Jewish immigrant from Lithuania, worked as a sweatshop foreman and changed the family name to Crown when Henry was a child. After dropping out of school in the 8th grade, Crown started a steel business with his older brother, Sol Crown, in 1915, creating S.R. Crown & Company. A few years later, in 1919, another brother, Irving Crown, joined the company, which became Material Service Corporation (MSC), a sand, gravel, lime and coal business that was prominent in Chicago’s construction industry. Henry Crown developed an early relationship with Jake Arvey, a notorious political fixer for the Democrats in Chicago who, like Crown, was the son of poor Jewish immigrants. Arvey had deep ties to the Chicago mob, including the circles around notorious gangster Al Capone Now, I know also that you're saying I'm being overly sensitive, but I'm trying to point out (when I was asked to disprove the article) that these are signals that I think the article is not to be trusted on face value.

roflyear 3y ago

You realize that isn't how it works, right? It shouldn't be OK to make wild claims without evidence that need to be backed up. It's the other way: you need good evidence to back up wild claims.

mandmandam 3y ago
What "wild claim" do you have in mind? The article seemed pretty clear about where evidence was lacking; and is more densely packed with links than >95% of mainstream news articles. Even if one were to completely dismiss everything fta that was even slightly suspect, you'd still have more insight into why JP Morgan might intentionally delete tens of millions of emails. Forty-seven million emails. 47,000,000. "Accidentally". Even if you could believe this - wow - even if you could take that at face value, the fine worth ~45 minutes or so of profit is still preposterous.
- roflyear 3y ago
  The wild claim from several links in this discussion seem to be some kind of jewish mobster financial conspiracy. How many emails do you think JPM receives a year?