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> The problems in the Congo originated with colonialism That's... overselling it I think. Congo wasn't a single stable and well managed state before colonialis

by boxed 3y ago

> The problems in the Congo originated with colonialism That's... overselling it I think. Congo wasn't a single stable and well managed state before colonialism. The Congo has been subject to the most horrible and incompetent management absolutely, but some parts of the world that have been through immense suffering has done very well and some have done very poorly. Just look at Korea! Just blaming colonialism for everything is a bit racist honestly. It is saying that it's only whites that can change the situation and the native populations are not capable of steering their own actions. I think there is something between the far right saying africans can't be trusted because [racism] and the (far?) left saying africans have no agency because [colonialist history].

defrost 3y ago
> Congo wasn't a single stable and well managed state before colonialism. I would like to hear more about this. Do you have a good source on the actual state of the pre colonial Congo basin not written by those who came to colonise? > Just blaming colonialism for everything is a bit racist honestly. Not everything .. but of course anyone familiar with, for example, the Belgian Congo and King Leopold will also be aware of how horrific those decades were. > It is saying that it's only whites that can change the situation and the native populations are not capable of steering their own actions. What I am saying is following a brutal generations long rule the local factions almost immediately had to contend with the two largest global super powers waging a bloody and secret proxy war to retain control over the richest highest grade uranium deposits on the planet. With money no object to provide guns, bribe warlords, sway oppositions, stage coups, etc I doubt any population could survive such outside pressure without being cleaved apart.
- jandrese 3y ago
  I don't think any of the indigenous tribes had developed writing so such evidence is probably not to be found. It would have to come from early colonizers writing down oral histories, and they were far more interested in oppression than preservation of culture.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Hmmm. What about the pre colonial kingdoms such as, say, the Kingdom of Luba with a million people in fishing, farming and metal-working communities paying taxes to their King? Do you think that they, or their neighbouring kingdoms in the Congo basin, had any works similar to, say, the Ethiopian Kebra Nagast (a 14th Century work)?
- boxed 3y ago
  Well maybe. But look at Ethiopia, the only country in Africa never colonized. They aren't doing significantly better. I think the problems are much more complex and varied than just "the white man did it". It's dangerous to have that opinion if it's wrong, because wrong ideas lead to wrong solutions, which leads to prolonged suffering.

by boxed 3y ago

defrost 3y ago

> Congo wasn't a single stable and well managed state before colonialism. I would like to hear more about this. Do you have a good source on the actual state of the pre colonial Congo basin not written by those who came to colonise? > Just blaming colonialism for everything is a bit racist honestly. Not everything .. but of course anyone familiar with, for example, the Belgian Congo and King Leopold will also be aware of how horrific those decades were. > It is saying that it's only whites that can change the situation and the native populations are not capable of steering their own actions. What I am saying is following a brutal generations long rule the local factions almost immediately had to contend with the two largest global super powers waging a bloody and secret proxy war to retain control over the richest highest grade uranium deposits on the planet. With money no object to provide guns, bribe warlords, sway oppositions, stage coups, etc I doubt any population could survive such outside pressure without being cleaved apart.

jandrese 3y ago
I don't think any of the indigenous tribes had developed writing so such evidence is probably not to be found. It would have to come from early colonizers writing down oral histories, and they were far more interested in oppression than preservation of culture.
- defrost 3y ago
  Hmmm. What about the pre colonial kingdoms such as, say, the Kingdom of Luba with a million people in fishing, farming and metal-working communities paying taxes to their King? Do you think that they, or their neighbouring kingdoms in the Congo basin, had any works similar to, say, the Ethiopian Kebra Nagast (a 14th Century work)?
boxed 3y ago
Well maybe. But look at Ethiopia, the only country in Africa never colonized. They aren't doing significantly better. I think the problems are much more complex and varied than just "the white man did it". It's dangerous to have that opinion if it's wrong, because wrong ideas lead to wrong solutions, which leads to prolonged suffering.