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Interesting. I thought for 1 there was actually both : half men are effeminate and the other half basically ultra-masculine gym bros ^^. Eastern Europe looks in

Interesting. I thought for 1 there was actually both : half men are effeminate and the other half basically ultra-masculine gym bros ^^. Eastern Europe looks interesting tho

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zpeti 3y ago
> basically ultra-masculine gym bros I don't think that's ultra masculine. At least people around me like that are self obsessed, appearance obsessed but ultimately fragile men. I also know because I was probably almost the same. I had a beard and looked like a lumberjack. Was I a real man? Not really. I'm not saying I now know what a man should be, but it definitely isn't an ultra masculine gym bro. It is someone who can create a stable, responsible, potentially loving environment for a family, someone who can endure a lot of strain and responsibility while still holding it together. It also helps if you have a goal in life other than "look good naked".
- davidguetta 3y ago
  Well you can be masculine in some ways and not other, it's the whole thing of "alpha person" vs "alpha behavior". Going to the gym makes you strong and fit but yeah if you have 0 personality or are a coward you will have longer term problems
- skrblr 3y ago
  > someone who can create a stable, responsible, potentially loving environment for a family, someone who can endure a lot of strain and responsibility while still holding it together How is this different from a woman's role?
  - zpeti 3y ago
    Your question floored me for a few hours, it’s a good one, but I think I’ve worked it out. This goal applies to both men and women, but a man needs to do this in terms of protecting his family from the outside, and create the conditions that this can happen within any harsh world, whereas it’s the woman’s job to actually do it inside the bubble that the man created. Obviously these are broad strokes and there are overlaps. But to me a man and a woman are both nothing really without a family, ultimately that’s what all this is about, it’s just how do you create that family and maintain it that’s different slightly.
    - skrblr 3y ago
      :) I think society would be better off if all people were raised to focus on creating stable, responsible families and being resilient to adversity, regardless of gender. Roles within the relationship should be negotiated based on individual strengths. I say that as a woman without children in a very equal marriage, working in software, who worries regularly about the impact of having children. I dread being expected to take on a less "worldly" and more "homemaker" role.
      - erenyeager 3y ago
        Curious as to if you can give insight why? I think many mothers would say their role as a mother is the most important and valuable to them. Usually men are more ambitious in their work, and women who become ambitious in work and career risk missing the biological clock to have children.
        skrblr 3y ago
        I would hope that fathers would also say that being a father is their most important role! I have been a software engineer for a decade. I derive a good deal of personal satisfaction from my work, and from being able to provide financially for my family. There are some things that only my body might be capable of, compared to my husband's, but otherwise I would hope that we are able to equitably divide responsibilities and impart the varying positive aspects of our worldviews and personalities onto our children. Bio clock is a mild concern, but people can struggle with infertility at any age. I would not want to tie my entire personality up with motherhood/homemaking and then find out that it wasn't in the cards.
      - zpeti 3y ago
        As a father of two, don’t overthink it, just do it. You won’t regret it
arcbyte 3y ago
Masculinity is summed up in the motives behind why we do things: are you running from something or are you building towards something? You can build an impressive body because you're running from the thoughts and feelings you get when you're at home alone without the endorphins in your blood. Or you can have a vision and build towards that actively. You'll always have both to some degree in everything but the core point here is what percentage are spending in which pole?

Interesting. I thought for 1 there was actually both : half men are effeminate and the other half basically ultra-masculine gym bros ^^. Eastern Europe looks interesting tho

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zpeti 3y ago

> basically ultra-masculine gym bros I don't think that's ultra masculine. At least people around me like that are self obsessed, appearance obsessed but ultimately fragile men. I also know because I was probably almost the same. I had a beard and looked like a lumberjack. Was I a real man? Not really. I'm not saying I now know what a man should be, but it definitely isn't an ultra masculine gym bro. It is someone who can create a stable, responsible, potentially loving environment for a family, someone who can endure a lot of strain and responsibility while still holding it together. It also helps if you have a goal in life other than "look good naked".

davidguetta 3y ago
Well you can be masculine in some ways and not other, it's the whole thing of "alpha person" vs "alpha behavior". Going to the gym makes you strong and fit but yeah if you have 0 personality or are a coward you will have longer term problems
skrblr 3y ago
> someone who can create a stable, responsible, potentially loving environment for a family, someone who can endure a lot of strain and responsibility while still holding it together How is this different from a woman's role?
- zpeti 3y ago
  Your question floored me for a few hours, it’s a good one, but I think I’ve worked it out. This goal applies to both men and women, but a man needs to do this in terms of protecting his family from the outside, and create the conditions that this can happen within any harsh world, whereas it’s the woman’s job to actually do it inside the bubble that the man created. Obviously these are broad strokes and there are overlaps. But to me a man and a woman are both nothing really without a family, ultimately that’s what all this is about, it’s just how do you create that family and maintain it that’s different slightly.
  - skrblr 3y ago
    :) I think society would be better off if all people were raised to focus on creating stable, responsible families and being resilient to adversity, regardless of gender. Roles within the relationship should be negotiated based on individual strengths. I say that as a woman without children in a very equal marriage, working in software, who worries regularly about the impact of having children. I dread being expected to take on a less "worldly" and more "homemaker" role.
    - erenyeager 3y ago
      Curious as to if you can give insight why? I think many mothers would say their role as a mother is the most important and valuable to them. Usually men are more ambitious in their work, and women who become ambitious in work and career risk missing the biological clock to have children.
      - skrblr 3y ago
        I would hope that fathers would also say that being a father is their most important role! I have been a software engineer for a decade. I derive a good deal of personal satisfaction from my work, and from being able to provide financially for my family. There are some things that only my body might be capable of, compared to my husband's, but otherwise I would hope that we are able to equitably divide responsibilities and impart the varying positive aspects of our worldviews and personalities onto our children. Bio clock is a mild concern, but people can struggle with infertility at any age. I would not want to tie my entire personality up with motherhood/homemaking and then find out that it wasn't in the cards.
    - zpeti 3y ago
      As a father of two, don’t overthink it, just do it. You won’t regret it

arcbyte 3y ago

Masculinity is summed up in the motives behind why we do things: are you running from something or are you building towards something? You can build an impressive body because you're running from the thoughts and feelings you get when you're at home alone without the endorphins in your blood. Or you can have a vision and build towards that actively. You'll always have both to some degree in everything but the core point here is what percentage are spending in which pole?