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> (that humans are sexually dimorphic and ramifications of that) We're actual a bimodal distribution. Even not accounting for intersex folk it's a lot less bin

> (that humans are sexually dimorphic and ramifications of that) We're actual a bimodal distribution. Even not accounting for intersex folk it's a lot less binary than most people assume or was covered in 8th grade bio.

hackinthebochs 3y ago
We're bimodal in distribution of traits, but dimorphic in terms of participants in sexual reproduction. Sex is a classification of reproductive roles and the distribution of traits downstream from the dimorphic roles.
brigandish 3y ago
[flagged]
- stubybubs 3y ago
  You're talking about gametes and OP and GP are talking about dimorphism, which is generally considered the difference in forms not including gametes. It's a very specific word to do with size differences, body hair etc. That is absolutely a bimodal distribution. Even just in height it is not binary. Sex does have several meanings, and form is one of them.
  - brigandish 3y ago
    Sexually dimorphic. That was the phrase used, was it not?
    - stubybubs 3y ago
      Yes, I just said dimorphism for short. My bad. What I said still stands, sexual dimorphism is the non-gamete differences between sexes.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- Shared404 3y ago
  > When you're able to produce a 3rd kind of gamete, or a human that can produce the other kind too or in sequence, then you can change my mind and claim your Nobel prize Many people result a null in this category in this without any medical intervention. Unless you intend to imply that someone is genderless if they produce no gametes? > FYI, intersex is a misnomer because it gives those who don't seem to understand the basics of human biology the idea that there is a 3rd sex (at least) when actually, it means that someone may have ambiguous gender, but they are still either one or the other. That is inaccurate. Humans can be born with both, or neither, sets of genitals, and chimerism can occur resulting in different portions of the body containing different genetics - it's possible for some portions to be XX and others to be XY. In addition, conditions such as klinefelter syndrome typically lead to individuals appearing closer to the XY end of the scale, their genome is actually XXY and doesn't match either.
  - esarbe 3y ago
    You confuse the concepts of "sex" and "gender". Sex is defined by the gametes one produces. Female for few large gametes, male for many small gametes. If you don't have the capacity to produce functional gametes, you're asexual. Gender is the social expression of the set of behaviors typical for a given sex. Your gender does not necessarily have to correspond to your biological sex.
    - Shared404 3y ago
      > You confuse the concepts of "sex" and "gender". > Gender is the social expression of the set of behaviors typical for a given sex. Your gender does not necessarily have to correspond to your biological sex. I'm more aware than most :P I just find it easier to start with the concept that people don't even understand even the biology they claim to tout before getting into that. E: I did poorly phrase that line in my last comment though.
    - zo1 3y ago
      We can't just throw something like "you confuse the concepts of X and Y" like that. This whole sex vs gender this is absolutely new to the world, so we can't just expect people to know it much less agree with it. I may be ignorant of history on some pedantic definitional level, but every single thing I know or am aware when it comes to this topic is that there have always been two of this "thing" whatever you want to call it, barring small odd cases or medical conditions. Two. Likewise, sex and gender were always seen as one in the same and interchangeable. This is very much a new, modern thing that's been thrown into the mix. And don't get me wrong, everyone should have the right to express themselves freely as long as they don't hurt others. But this whole "gender" being something different to sex seems very much a spanner thrown in the works to confuse and back something as being "fundamental" as if it's needed in the fight for equal rights for the affected individuals. Whether a person gets to act as the other sex/gender is irrelevant, they are a human being and get rights as such.
- implements 3y ago
  Gametes, chromosomes and morphology - usually the first two are enough to determine 99.9r% of people as unambiguously male or female. The situation isn’t helped by Americans often using the word gender as a direct substitution for the word sex. Gender is the set of social expectations around how the different sexes should look, feel, think and act. Originally this was rigidly imposed (two genders - males obliged to be masculine / females feminine - or suffer negative social consequences) but now in the West people are free to construct their own gender from a set of infinitely variable gendered characteristics. [disputed ideological view] Someone’s expressed gender doesn’t alter what sex they are, though - nor is someone’s ‘true sex’ that which their gender identity might suggest. I say this because it doesn’t seem logical to complicate sex (the process by which new humans are created) with the infinite complexity of human personality and culture. Sex doesn’t determine character, and character doesn’t determine sex - would be my TL;DR.

hackinthebochs 3y ago

We're bimodal in distribution of traits, but dimorphic in terms of participants in sexual reproduction. Sex is a classification of reproductive roles and the distribution of traits downstream from the dimorphic roles.

brigandish 3y ago

[flagged]

stubybubs 3y ago
You're talking about gametes and OP and GP are talking about dimorphism, which is generally considered the difference in forms not including gametes. It's a very specific word to do with size differences, body hair etc. That is absolutely a bimodal distribution. Even just in height it is not binary. Sex does have several meanings, and form is one of them.
- brigandish 3y ago
  Sexually dimorphic. That was the phrase used, was it not?
  - stubybubs 3y ago
    Yes, I just said dimorphism for short. My bad. What I said still stands, sexual dimorphism is the non-gamete differences between sexes.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
Shared404 3y ago
> When you're able to produce a 3rd kind of gamete, or a human that can produce the other kind too or in sequence, then you can change my mind and claim your Nobel prize Many people result a null in this category in this without any medical intervention. Unless you intend to imply that someone is genderless if they produce no gametes? > FYI, intersex is a misnomer because it gives those who don't seem to understand the basics of human biology the idea that there is a 3rd sex (at least) when actually, it means that someone may have ambiguous gender, but they are still either one or the other. That is inaccurate. Humans can be born with both, or neither, sets of genitals, and chimerism can occur resulting in different portions of the body containing different genetics - it's possible for some portions to be XX and others to be XY. In addition, conditions such as klinefelter syndrome typically lead to individuals appearing closer to the XY end of the scale, their genome is actually XXY and doesn't match either.
- esarbe 3y ago
  You confuse the concepts of "sex" and "gender". Sex is defined by the gametes one produces. Female for few large gametes, male for many small gametes. If you don't have the capacity to produce functional gametes, you're asexual. Gender is the social expression of the set of behaviors typical for a given sex. Your gender does not necessarily have to correspond to your biological sex.
  - Shared404 3y ago
    > You confuse the concepts of "sex" and "gender". > Gender is the social expression of the set of behaviors typical for a given sex. Your gender does not necessarily have to correspond to your biological sex. I'm more aware than most :P I just find it easier to start with the concept that people don't even understand even the biology they claim to tout before getting into that. E: I did poorly phrase that line in my last comment though.
  - zo1 3y ago
    We can't just throw something like "you confuse the concepts of X and Y" like that. This whole sex vs gender this is absolutely new to the world, so we can't just expect people to know it much less agree with it. I may be ignorant of history on some pedantic definitional level, but every single thing I know or am aware when it comes to this topic is that there have always been two of this "thing" whatever you want to call it, barring small odd cases or medical conditions. Two. Likewise, sex and gender were always seen as one in the same and interchangeable. This is very much a new, modern thing that's been thrown into the mix. And don't get me wrong, everyone should have the right to express themselves freely as long as they don't hurt others. But this whole "gender" being something different to sex seems very much a spanner thrown in the works to confuse and back something as being "fundamental" as if it's needed in the fight for equal rights for the affected individuals. Whether a person gets to act as the other sex/gender is irrelevant, they are a human being and get rights as such.
implements 3y ago
Gametes, chromosomes and morphology - usually the first two are enough to determine 99.9r% of people as unambiguously male or female. The situation isn’t helped by Americans often using the word gender as a direct substitution for the word sex. Gender is the set of social expectations around how the different sexes should look, feel, think and act. Originally this was rigidly imposed (two genders - males obliged to be masculine / females feminine - or suffer negative social consequences) but now in the West people are free to construct their own gender from a set of infinitely variable gendered characteristics. [disputed ideological view] Someone’s expressed gender doesn’t alter what sex they are, though - nor is someone’s ‘true sex’ that which their gender identity might suggest. I say this because it doesn’t seem logical to complicate sex (the process by which new humans are created) with the infinite complexity of human personality and culture. Sex doesn’t determine character, and character doesn’t determine sex - would be my TL;DR.