4 ms·

>but I think it's much more worthwile to dive into the particulars of why it failed If you’re going to deep dive, define your terms: what did it fail at? At b

>but I think it's much more worthwile to dive into the particulars of why it failed If you’re going to deep dive, define your terms: what did it fail at? At being the future? Kind of a straw man, even if some people did argue that. As a document interchange format? Between RSS — including podcasts! — Microsoft Office, and LibreOffice it seems to have done reasonably well. As a data interchange format? Undoubtedly JSON is now preferred for this, but keep in mind that for several crucial years, as the “X” in “AJAX,” it paved the way for modern web apps via Google Maps, Gmail, and before that Outlook for the Web (literally the original AJAX app). I think it’s not really interesting to examine how and where JSON displaced XML given this is not hard to grasp and well covered. Much more interesting to extract lessons that also work on JSON and predict what might displace it and where and how. For example it’s interesting that JSON is simpler than XML. Might it have discarded something valuable? The “X” is for extensibility - if we could extend JSON, which we can’t, how would we? First class date times might nice, mmm? Or to be able to add arbitrary other self describing data types? UUIDs? What is XML still ideal for? Etc

Kwpolska 3y ago
The X in AJAX is there because the devs had to put it in MSXML, because they couldn't add it to IE itself due to a code freeze, and because XML sounded cool back then. https://web.archive.org/web/20170424220609/http://www.alexhopmann.com/xmlhttp.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20170424220609/http://www.alexho... While there probably were some pages using XML in AJAX, many were just sending HTML fragments.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  > This was the good-old-days when critical features were crammed in just days before a release Fascinating article, but really? I would have thought "cramming in" critical features days before release was more common these days, esp. if you're releasing/deploying to production on a daily (or even multiple-times-a-day) basis.
  - chrisan 3y ago
    > esp. if you're releasing/deploying to production on a daily (or even multiple-times-a-day) basis. What does releasing regularly have to do with cramming stuff in? We release when stuff is ready. That could be multiple times a day or once a week. I think of people with set release dates as the most likely candidates of "cramming stuff in" because they fear they will miss the release and it might be a month (or worse) before the next release
    - wizofaus 3y ago
      Hence the quotes around "cramming" - it's now standard practice for the commits for a new feature to be merged into the mainline days before building a release. I can't say I ever remember doing that 20 years ago - there was always a code freeze period reserved for critical bug fixes.
PurpleRamen 3y ago
> what did it fail at? To stay. Yes, it's still used. But which new projects are still using XML? Most usage now are remnants from the golden age. Others are old companies who build their culture with XML, and continue to use it, but that's it. XML is not growing anymore, and slowly dying. It's quite like RSS, not dead yet, but not prospering either.

Kwpolska 3y ago

The X in AJAX is there because the devs had to put it in MSXML, because they couldn't add it to IE itself due to a code freeze, and because XML sounded cool back then. https://web.archive.org/web/20170424220609/http://www.alexhopmann.com/xmlhttp.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20170424220609/http://www.alexho... While there probably were some pages using XML in AJAX, many were just sending HTML fragments.

wizofaus 3y ago
> This was the good-old-days when critical features were crammed in just days before a release Fascinating article, but really? I would have thought "cramming in" critical features days before release was more common these days, esp. if you're releasing/deploying to production on a daily (or even multiple-times-a-day) basis.
- chrisan 3y ago
  > esp. if you're releasing/deploying to production on a daily (or even multiple-times-a-day) basis. What does releasing regularly have to do with cramming stuff in? We release when stuff is ready. That could be multiple times a day or once a week. I think of people with set release dates as the most likely candidates of "cramming stuff in" because they fear they will miss the release and it might be a month (or worse) before the next release
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    Hence the quotes around "cramming" - it's now standard practice for the commits for a new feature to be merged into the mainline days before building a release. I can't say I ever remember doing that 20 years ago - there was always a code freeze period reserved for critical bug fixes.

PurpleRamen 3y ago

> what did it fail at? To stay. Yes, it's still used. But which new projects are still using XML? Most usage now are remnants from the golden age. Others are old companies who build their culture with XML, and continue to use it, but that's it. XML is not growing anymore, and slowly dying. It's quite like RSS, not dead yet, but not prospering either.