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Because we learned from this before with their support for XMPP in Messenger (which no longer exists)? And plenty of other examples for for-profit corporations

by treyd 3y ago

Because we learned from this before with their support for XMPP in Messenger (which no longer exists)? And plenty of other examples for for-profit corporations initially embracing open standards/protocols that might threaten their moat?

shadowgovt 3y ago
Do we expect it will go better if they are blocked? Instead of the risk of embrace, extend, extinguish, Fediverse just ends up being "the thing like Facebook's thing, but harder to use?"
- SamWhited 3y ago
  That's what it is now, and that's fine (well, the "harder to use" isn't fine and lots of people are working on that, but it's okay that it's not ultra-popular). The fediverse (for the most part) isn't looking for rapid growth, there are no shareholders to appease, we just want to exist and not have to do free moderation for Facebook when they fail to moderate the content from their users, as they have always failed to do. We block small servers who are bad actors all the time, and Facebook has always been a bad actor when it was a walled garden and they have done nothing to show that they won't continue to do the same once they support activitypub.
zer0zzz 3y ago
XMPP as a product was growing and doing fine until it completely failed to operate in the model of modern smart phones that have to use push services to stay connected. This Reddit link has some good descriptions of the limitations: https://www.reddit.com/r/xmpp/comments/np8i2l/why_does_it_seem_like_xmpp_doesnt_work_well_on_ios/ https://www.reddit.com/r/xmpp/comments/np8i2l/why_does_it_se.... In a world where mobile matters first and foremost xmpp just kinda died. And facebook wasn’t unique in this, google killed their s2s support around the time they transitioned to hangouts as well. Fact is facebook probably still runs one of the largest ejabberd instances (but I’m not certain what runs WhatsApp these days actually).

by treyd 3y ago

shadowgovt 3y ago

Do we expect it will go better if they are blocked? Instead of the risk of embrace, extend, extinguish, Fediverse just ends up being "the thing like Facebook's thing, but harder to use?"

SamWhited 3y ago
That's what it is now, and that's fine (well, the "harder to use" isn't fine and lots of people are working on that, but it's okay that it's not ultra-popular). The fediverse (for the most part) isn't looking for rapid growth, there are no shareholders to appease, we just want to exist and not have to do free moderation for Facebook when they fail to moderate the content from their users, as they have always failed to do. We block small servers who are bad actors all the time, and Facebook has always been a bad actor when it was a walled garden and they have done nothing to show that they won't continue to do the same once they support activitypub.

zer0zzz 3y ago

XMPP as a product was growing and doing fine until it completely failed to operate in the model of modern smart phones that have to use push services to stay connected. This Reddit link has some good descriptions of the limitations: https://www.reddit.com/r/xmpp/comments/np8i2l/why_does_it_seem_like_xmpp_doesnt_work_well_on_ios/ https://www.reddit.com/r/xmpp/comments/np8i2l/why_does_it_se.... In a world where mobile matters first and foremost xmpp just kinda died. And facebook wasn’t unique in this, google killed their s2s support around the time they transitioned to hangouts as well. Fact is facebook probably still runs one of the largest ejabberd instances (but I’m not certain what runs WhatsApp these days actually).