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As a man I've never understood this complaint. Sure, it's a sitcom cliche to always have the bumbling dad and the competent mom who is usually also wildly out

As a man I've never understood this complaint. Sure, it's a sitcom cliche to always have the bumbling dad and the competent mom who is usually also wildly out of his league, but the reasons why that's the more common case don't strike me as something to get upset about (it is boring writing, but that's a different problem). Humor at the expense of traditionally more powerful groups works better because it can be seen as both a way of balancing the scales a bit and it doesn't come with the uncomfortable connection to examples of people taking the underlying ideas way more seriously. Comedy about my gender is funnier because nobody actually thinks my gender is a weakness. To that point, culture is absolutely full of baseless attacks on women too, often in a far more damaging context. Lots of people still feel way too comfortable suggesting women are biologically unsuited for high status jobs and really only valuable for making babies. And the vitriol directed at women in the abortion debate, and the actual reduction in rights that rhetoric has led to, sort of puts dumb male sitcom characters in perspective.

MyShawdowySelf 3y ago
> but the reasons why that's the more common case don't strike me as something to get upset about I would venture to guess that's because you are not in the socio-economical bracket where this is not just something you see on TV but become how people actually treat you. In my arm-chair and widely unqualified perspective, the life experience of men is very very bi-modal. A select few with whatever the characteristic du-jour are can have such a different experience that it become harder to related to the less fortunate. > Humor at the expense of traditionally more powerful groups works About the same remark, traditionally, the most the people with the most power were/are men, doesn't follow that most men have power or that even that the average men have more power than the average women. The distribution of power/social status is usually very skewed for men. > because it can be seen as both a way of balancing the scales a bit Two wrong doesn't make a right , and the sin of the father do not belong to the sons. The problem with balancing things like this is that you are punishing people who weren't not involved in a situation... > it doesn't come with the uncomfortable connection to examples of people taking the underlying ideas way more seriously. And racist joke were also justified before because they were just joke that nobody take seriously. > Comedy about my gender is funnier because nobody actually thinks my gender is a weakness. You would be surprised... Sure not weakness... But things like emotional maturity and basic organization skills that's a different story. > To that point, culture is absolutely full of baseless attacks on women too, often in a far more damaging context. Lots of people still feel way too comfortable suggesting women are biologically unsuited for high status jobs and really only valuable for making babies. And the vitriol directed at women in the abortion debate, and the actual reduction in rights that rhetoric has led to, sort of puts dumb male sitcom characters in perspective. This also a big problem every time men/boys problem are brought to the for front. It seems to always been turned into "but what about women... etc..." I can only speak for myself, as fairly liberal man. We all understand (even if we don't always relate to them) the tribulation that women face. Those things should definitively be addressed and fought for. But we don't need to solve ALL the women problems before we give some attentions to men issues. And certainly shouldn't use that as excuse to continue detrimental societal stereotypes. Stereotyping an entire gender as dumb, un effective buffoon is wrong and as you mentioned yourself not very funny. Let's just stop it and move on... there is no need for mental gymnastic to find bizare excuses.
XorNot 3y ago
The issue is that, at least for me, growing up the only exposure you had to the concept of "normal" on TV was sitcoms. They lived in a block of shows that got shown either before or after The Simpsons (which was obviously meant to be not real, except for literally everything they said about the American healthcare system) and thus even though you knew there was meant to be funny things happening, it was never clear what the subversion of - not to teenagers trying to figure out their identity. We had a stunning lack of shows which tried to depict well adjusted male characters: i.e. people who could have emotions, who could have flaws and were allowed to work to correct them, but who could also be sources of wisdom or correct. Instead we had "sitcoms" and "drama". And in Australia at least, our "drama" is...pretty god damn messed up - but at least that was obviously something you didn't want to watch. It's why show's like Bluey have exploded the way they have: it fills that need for a middle ground of something in media to say "this is what you can be" in a way which isn't playing to stereotypes. Though I suppose all of that could be summarized as: the death of boomer humor about hating your wife is long-overdue.
a_puppy 3y ago
Negative stereotypes about men are not okay. Please stop making excuses for negative stereotypes about men. Yes, men are more privileged than women in many ways. But men are also disadvantaged in many ways -- many individual men are actual quite vulnerable! -- and negative stereotypes about men cause real harm. Yes, society is sometimes quite shitty to women; but that doesn't somehow make it okay to be shitty to men. Feminism at its best treats both women and men with respect and dignity. Feminism at its worst uses "gender equality" to justify hurting men. Right now you're doing the latter. Please stop.

MyShawdowySelf 3y ago

> but the reasons why that's the more common case don't strike me as something to get upset about I would venture to guess that's because you are not in the socio-economical bracket where this is not just something you see on TV but become how people actually treat you. In my arm-chair and widely unqualified perspective, the life experience of men is very very bi-modal. A select few with whatever the characteristic du-jour are can have such a different experience that it become harder to related to the less fortunate. > Humor at the expense of traditionally more powerful groups works About the same remark, traditionally, the most the people with the most power were/are men, doesn't follow that most men have power or that even that the average men have more power than the average women. The distribution of power/social status is usually very skewed for men. > because it can be seen as both a way of balancing the scales a bit Two wrong doesn't make a right , and the sin of the father do not belong to the sons. The problem with balancing things like this is that you are punishing people who weren't not involved in a situation... > it doesn't come with the uncomfortable connection to examples of people taking the underlying ideas way more seriously. And racist joke were also justified before because they were just joke that nobody take seriously. > Comedy about my gender is funnier because nobody actually thinks my gender is a weakness. You would be surprised... Sure not weakness... But things like emotional maturity and basic organization skills that's a different story. > To that point, culture is absolutely full of baseless attacks on women too, often in a far more damaging context. Lots of people still feel way too comfortable suggesting women are biologically unsuited for high status jobs and really only valuable for making babies. And the vitriol directed at women in the abortion debate, and the actual reduction in rights that rhetoric has led to, sort of puts dumb male sitcom characters in perspective. This also a big problem every time men/boys problem are brought to the for front. It seems to always been turned into "but what about women... etc..." I can only speak for myself, as fairly liberal man. We all understand (even if we don't always relate to them) the tribulation that women face. Those things should definitively be addressed and fought for. But we don't need to solve ALL the women problems before we give some attentions to men issues. And certainly shouldn't use that as excuse to continue detrimental societal stereotypes. Stereotyping an entire gender as dumb, un effective buffoon is wrong and as you mentioned yourself not very funny. Let's just stop it and move on... there is no need for mental gymnastic to find bizare excuses.

XorNot 3y ago

The issue is that, at least for me, growing up the only exposure you had to the concept of "normal" on TV was sitcoms. They lived in a block of shows that got shown either before or after The Simpsons (which was obviously meant to be not real, except for literally everything they said about the American healthcare system) and thus even though you knew there was meant to be funny things happening, it was never clear what the subversion of - not to teenagers trying to figure out their identity. We had a stunning lack of shows which tried to depict well adjusted male characters: i.e. people who could have emotions, who could have flaws and were allowed to work to correct them, but who could also be sources of wisdom or correct. Instead we had "sitcoms" and "drama". And in Australia at least, our "drama" is...pretty god damn messed up - but at least that was obviously something you didn't want to watch. It's why show's like Bluey have exploded the way they have: it fills that need for a middle ground of something in media to say "this is what you can be" in a way which isn't playing to stereotypes. Though I suppose all of that could be summarized as: the death of boomer humor about hating your wife is long-overdue.

a_puppy 3y ago

Negative stereotypes about men are not okay. Please stop making excuses for negative stereotypes about men. Yes, men are more privileged than women in many ways. But men are also disadvantaged in many ways -- many individual men are actual quite vulnerable! -- and negative stereotypes about men cause real harm. Yes, society is sometimes quite shitty to women; but that doesn't somehow make it okay to be shitty to men. Feminism at its best treats both women and men with respect and dignity. Feminism at its worst uses "gender equality" to justify hurting men. Right now you're doing the latter. Please stop.