3 ms·

So many economic analyses of social and environmental problems are full of these "hidden cost" factors, and they're baked into why so many things occur in the f

So many economic analyses of social and environmental problems are full of these "hidden cost" factors, and they're baked into why so many things occur in the first place. "Capitalized profit, socialized risk" is just one example but they all fall into a broader category, of scenarios where enormous costs or dependencies are just ignored or hidden. I might go so far as to argue that large segments of societal economics are based on this dynamic, and might be the achilles heel of modern capitalism.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
I generally agree, though I'd like to add a similar caveat I posted earlier on another thread[0]: those are all relatively recent problems. Like, e.g. petroleum chemistry and chemical industries only started in the earnest in the last 150 years. Chemical leaks and ground water contamination became an issue roughly half-way between then and today. We only have a decent ability to detect such leaks and measure their health impact for half as long still. It may be that the main reason we're discovering so many externalities and bad second-order effects buried in everything that makes for a modern life, is because it's only recently that sciences and engineering progressed enough to allow detecting and quantifying those issues. -- [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36472880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36472880
- Arn_Thor 3y ago
  Or were industrialization introduced resource extraction and use on a scale where these externalities are readily noticeable. (Exceptions apply, I’m sure. Maybe some ancient Roman mine tailings poisoned a city at one time but either no one made the connection or it wasn’t written down or we just haven’t found those records)
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Don't lose sight of the exponent. Whatever happened in the early years of industrialization, is mostly a rounding error compared to today. So is what happened 100 years ago. Even the obvious things, not requiring advanced science or sophisticated tools to interpret, could go unnoticed for long and suddenly become noticeable now, simply because of scale and accumulation.
    - Arn_Thor 3y ago
      Indeed. I think that's sort of what I was saying, but you put it better
thrashh 3y ago
In my opinion, everything has a hidden cost, it’s nothing at all related to capitalism, and it’s the fundamental reason why anyone can get anything done. If you sat down and thought through all the possible consequences of all your actions, you’d never get anything done.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Never getting anything done seems highly underrated then.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

I generally agree, though I'd like to add a similar caveat I posted earlier on another thread[0]: those are all relatively recent problems. Like, e.g. petroleum chemistry and chemical industries only started in the earnest in the last 150 years. Chemical leaks and ground water contamination became an issue roughly half-way between then and today. We only have a decent ability to detect such leaks and measure their health impact for half as long still. It may be that the main reason we're discovering so many externalities and bad second-order effects buried in everything that makes for a modern life, is because it's only recently that sciences and engineering progressed enough to allow detecting and quantifying those issues. -- [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36472880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36472880

Arn_Thor 3y ago
Or were industrialization introduced resource extraction and use on a scale where these externalities are readily noticeable. (Exceptions apply, I’m sure. Maybe some ancient Roman mine tailings poisoned a city at one time but either no one made the connection or it wasn’t written down or we just haven’t found those records)
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Don't lose sight of the exponent. Whatever happened in the early years of industrialization, is mostly a rounding error compared to today. So is what happened 100 years ago. Even the obvious things, not requiring advanced science or sophisticated tools to interpret, could go unnoticed for long and suddenly become noticeable now, simply because of scale and accumulation.
  - Arn_Thor 3y ago
    Indeed. I think that's sort of what I was saying, but you put it better

thrashh 3y ago

In my opinion, everything has a hidden cost, it’s nothing at all related to capitalism, and it’s the fundamental reason why anyone can get anything done. If you sat down and thought through all the possible consequences of all your actions, you’d never get anything done.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Never getting anything done seems highly underrated then.