6 ms·

Show HN: Fossfox – paid opportunities for open-source devs

235 points by 4kimov 3y ago

The index lists either companies that work on open-source products or those that heavily contribute to open-source. Either way, ideal for devs that want to keep an eye out for opportunities. Engineering teams can post for free. Open directory of available positions is here [0]. [0] https://github.com/fossfox-com/fossfox https://github.com/fossfox-com/fossfox

arek_nawo 3y ago
The site looks good. On a side-note, it’s really great to see that more and more Comercial OSS and other open-source projects become viable businesses. I think this is one of the best way to actually make open-source sustainable.
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Thank you. I agree: it's a great moat against closed-source competitors. Plus I'm noticing more and more businesses going with permissive Apache 2.0 licenses (or similar), which is great for the public as well.
  - arek_nawo 3y ago
    So true. I have no problem with using and paying for a hosted, "cloud" version of the product if a self-hosting option is available. It reassures me that I can rely on this product, while not being vendor-locked. I've certainly seen many different licenses used in COSS projects, including different mixes of them. E.g.: for my latest project I've decided to use mainly AGPL-3.0 (a pretty strong copyleft license) with specific parts licensed under MIT. That said, my goal wasn't to limit the usage, but to be open-source, and provide self-hosting option (the 2 fundamental advantages you can provide to your users by being open-source, IMHO), while making sure nobody just runs the product on their servers, rebrands it, and sells it to others as a service (which, while possible with other licenses, is simply unethical in my book).
    - bruce511 3y ago
      Everyone is clearly entitled to their own set of ethics, but in this situation ethics is not a problem. One of the explicit permissions of Free Software (and by extension Open Source Software) is that you can sell the software or otherwise profit off it. There is no stipulation that you need to be the primary author, or any kind of contributer to do this. Equally there is the very explicit freedom to not restrict what people can do with the software. This is quite literally in the definition of Free Software. Thus rebranding a product, and hosting it yourself, is completely consistent with the Free Software ideals, as long as the user conforms to the terms of the license (making source code available.) AGPL does not stop rebranding/ rehosting, nor is it designed to. There are licenses that do that well, but they are not OSS licenses. Ethically I subscribe to the idea that the author was free to license their work (open or closed) however they chose. I'm happy to use , or not use, the product based on the license -they- chose. I'm not obligated to impose additional restrictions on their work. If they wanted those restrictions they have the choice to add them. You are of course free to apply any framework of ethics to yourself that you like. I'd also point out that using the AGPL specifically does -not- prevent someone from running your product on their server rebranding it, and selling it for money. Doing that is completely within the bounds of AGPL.
      - arek_nawo 3y ago
        Thanks for clarifying. I should indeed explain better what I had in mind. You are correct that under AGPL-3.0 people still can provide the software as a service, but they’ll have to disclose any changes to the source code they’ve made. This, in my mind, effectively discourages doing so as, if all you do is change the branding, people will eventually know and, depending on their ethics and the provided offering, they might choose not to use the “official” service. In theory people still could distribute the product as-is or just be fine with the open-sourcing and actually add something of value to their fork. However, as I’ve seen in practice, this doesn’t seem to happen at a meaningful scale and people usually prefer to contribute directly to the original project. Like you’ve said, there are other licenses that aren’t really open-source, prohibiting this from happening at all. Most interesting options from these, for me, were SSPL (which puts the open-sourcing requirement on other elements of your stack, like hosting provider, making it a non-starter), or ELv2 (which just prohibits SaaS use entirely). But again, not being recognized as official open-source licenses, using these puts the project more in the camp of source-available software rather than open-source.
phosfox 3y ago
I like the name.
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Thank you.
midzer 3y ago
There is https://www.fossjobs.net/ https://www.fossjobs.net/ too edit: Linked Fossfox in https://github.com/fossjobs/fossjobs/wiki/Resources https://github.com/fossjobs/fossjobs/wiki/Resources
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Nice, thanks for adding to resources.
KomoD 3y ago
I don't like that the table doesn't stretch out fully and clicking on the "..." doesn't bring me somewhere that shows them all
matsemann 3y ago
What makes Netflix for instance eligible? Is the job specifically geared towards OS, or just Netflix known for releasing some of their stuff as OS and hence are allowed? Any thoughts about location? No idea what here is relevant for where I live.
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Great questions, atm the index contains either companies that have their main products as open-source, or companies that make significant contributions (eg: Netflix, Cloudflare, OpenAI have thousands of Github stars). All jobs should be remote-friendly. There's nothing to do - if you see the jobs, they should be relevant to you. Some companies do have physical offices (meaning you're welcome to work from there), and those cities are listed if you click on the company's name. Right now it's region-biased per country -- if you scroll to the bottom and click "more" you can change the country. There's def still work to do (visas, non-remote, fine-tuning, etc).
  - rebeccaskinner 3y ago
    I'm not sure about the other companies, but I see listings for both Netflix and OpenAI that claim to offer remote work. Aren't both companies notoriously remote-hostile? OpenAI in particular seems to have been pretty vocally anti-remote lately. It might be a good idea to allow some way for people to flag bait-and-switch remote listings.
    - 4kimov 3y ago
      Reporting/flagging features are def on the todo list & not yet there. I agree, they'd be great to have for better moderation. All good points.
  - arp242 3y ago
    > All jobs should be remote-friendly Would be helpful to mention where by the way; some positions are world-wide remote, others Europe or US only.
stefanos82 3y ago
Can't read nearly anything unless I force my focus on a specific area. Can you enlarge the fonts please? My vision is not so good. Hint: Editing font-size to 18px (for <div class="sc-4dp71k-0 hIhENr app-app-wrapper">) via web dev tools (Firefox) produces an incredible output for me.
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Yeah, I might've gotten used to it by now - need to experiment a bit & adjust. Thank you for the feedback.
  - chrismorgan 3y ago
    Rule of thumb: body text should never be smaller than 16px or (preferably, though the difference is nuanced) 1em as the browser gives it at the root. (This holds for form fields too, with a more concrete technical reason: iOS will zoom in on the field on focus if its font-size is less than 16px.) 12px is pretty much the lower bound of what is ever acceptable, and only in small quantities and for specific purposes, and it’s better not to go down that small.
gbraad 3y ago
work WITH open source seems more fitting
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Oh I like that. It would include people that enjoy working at open-source companies, but their role might not be directly foss-related on the daily (eg: devops, website, etc). Thank you for pointing that out.
ugh123 3y ago
This just looks like a job board for tech companies that also have open source projects, which is most big tech companies and lots of startups
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ZoomZoomZoom 3y ago
Nice initiative! Hope the list grows. It would be nice if you had a fast filter for remote-only postings. Also, your mailing list software drops the part after a `+`, this breaks filtering rules. I'd also like your base to store my address in a form I provided.
- 4kimov 3y ago
  Thank you. Yes you're right, location/remote has to be adjusted for better experience. And I'll see what I can do regarding the email '+', thanks for the heads up.
csomar 3y ago
I am not sure how this made it to the front page or how you justify the click-bait. - These are not paid opportunities for Open Source work. This a job board. The title makes you think that there are gigs to work on some open source projects and get paid for it. - There are no guarantees that these "open source friendly" companies will hire you to work on Open Source. Working on Open Source projects is the exception, not the rule. Unless the company has gone the full OS model, which is just a few startups. And still, sometimes these companies have other kind of work (customization for a certain client) at which point you are not involved in the OS work at all.
nubinetwork 3y ago
All dev jobs and no admin/infra makes bofh cry.
- CoolCold 3y ago
  H stands for Hell here, while all devs, DX, startups, hype, CTOs are on Clouds. When you say Infra here on HN, you show you are from the past. /sarcasm-not-so-much-sarcasm
timqian 3y ago
FYI: https://github.com/t9tio/open-source-jobs/ https://github.com/t9tio/open-source-jobs/
swaptr 3y ago
The website looks amazing! Good job man!

235 points by 4kimov 3y ago

arek_nawo 3y ago

The site looks good. On a side-note, it’s really great to see that more and more Comercial OSS and other open-source projects become viable businesses. I think this is one of the best way to actually make open-source sustainable.

4kimov 3y ago
Thank you. I agree: it's a great moat against closed-source competitors. Plus I'm noticing more and more businesses going with permissive Apache 2.0 licenses (or similar), which is great for the public as well.
- arek_nawo 3y ago
  So true. I have no problem with using and paying for a hosted, "cloud" version of the product if a self-hosting option is available. It reassures me that I can rely on this product, while not being vendor-locked. I've certainly seen many different licenses used in COSS projects, including different mixes of them. E.g.: for my latest project I've decided to use mainly AGPL-3.0 (a pretty strong copyleft license) with specific parts licensed under MIT. That said, my goal wasn't to limit the usage, but to be open-source, and provide self-hosting option (the 2 fundamental advantages you can provide to your users by being open-source, IMHO), while making sure nobody just runs the product on their servers, rebrands it, and sells it to others as a service (which, while possible with other licenses, is simply unethical in my book).
  - bruce511 3y ago
    Everyone is clearly entitled to their own set of ethics, but in this situation ethics is not a problem. One of the explicit permissions of Free Software (and by extension Open Source Software) is that you can sell the software or otherwise profit off it. There is no stipulation that you need to be the primary author, or any kind of contributer to do this. Equally there is the very explicit freedom to not restrict what people can do with the software. This is quite literally in the definition of Free Software. Thus rebranding a product, and hosting it yourself, is completely consistent with the Free Software ideals, as long as the user conforms to the terms of the license (making source code available.) AGPL does not stop rebranding/ rehosting, nor is it designed to. There are licenses that do that well, but they are not OSS licenses. Ethically I subscribe to the idea that the author was free to license their work (open or closed) however they chose. I'm happy to use , or not use, the product based on the license -they- chose. I'm not obligated to impose additional restrictions on their work. If they wanted those restrictions they have the choice to add them. You are of course free to apply any framework of ethics to yourself that you like. I'd also point out that using the AGPL specifically does -not- prevent someone from running your product on their server rebranding it, and selling it for money. Doing that is completely within the bounds of AGPL.
    - arek_nawo 3y ago
      Thanks for clarifying. I should indeed explain better what I had in mind. You are correct that under AGPL-3.0 people still can provide the software as a service, but they’ll have to disclose any changes to the source code they’ve made. This, in my mind, effectively discourages doing so as, if all you do is change the branding, people will eventually know and, depending on their ethics and the provided offering, they might choose not to use the “official” service. In theory people still could distribute the product as-is or just be fine with the open-sourcing and actually add something of value to their fork. However, as I’ve seen in practice, this doesn’t seem to happen at a meaningful scale and people usually prefer to contribute directly to the original project. Like you’ve said, there are other licenses that aren’t really open-source, prohibiting this from happening at all. Most interesting options from these, for me, were SSPL (which puts the open-sourcing requirement on other elements of your stack, like hosting provider, making it a non-starter), or ELv2 (which just prohibits SaaS use entirely). But again, not being recognized as official open-source licenses, using these puts the project more in the camp of source-available software rather than open-source.

phosfox 3y ago

I like the name.

4kimov 3y ago
Thank you.

midzer 3y ago

There is https://www.fossjobs.net/ https://www.fossjobs.net/ too edit: Linked Fossfox in https://github.com/fossjobs/fossjobs/wiki/Resources https://github.com/fossjobs/fossjobs/wiki/Resources

4kimov 3y ago
Nice, thanks for adding to resources.

KomoD 3y ago

I don't like that the table doesn't stretch out fully and clicking on the "..." doesn't bring me somewhere that shows them all

matsemann 3y ago

What makes Netflix for instance eligible? Is the job specifically geared towards OS, or just Netflix known for releasing some of their stuff as OS and hence are allowed? Any thoughts about location? No idea what here is relevant for where I live.

4kimov 3y ago
Great questions, atm the index contains either companies that have their main products as open-source, or companies that make significant contributions (eg: Netflix, Cloudflare, OpenAI have thousands of Github stars). All jobs should be remote-friendly. There's nothing to do - if you see the jobs, they should be relevant to you. Some companies do have physical offices (meaning you're welcome to work from there), and those cities are listed if you click on the company's name. Right now it's region-biased per country -- if you scroll to the bottom and click "more" you can change the country. There's def still work to do (visas, non-remote, fine-tuning, etc).
- rebeccaskinner 3y ago
  I'm not sure about the other companies, but I see listings for both Netflix and OpenAI that claim to offer remote work. Aren't both companies notoriously remote-hostile? OpenAI in particular seems to have been pretty vocally anti-remote lately. It might be a good idea to allow some way for people to flag bait-and-switch remote listings.
  - 4kimov 3y ago
    Reporting/flagging features are def on the todo list & not yet there. I agree, they'd be great to have for better moderation. All good points.
- arp242 3y ago
  > All jobs should be remote-friendly Would be helpful to mention where by the way; some positions are world-wide remote, others Europe or US only.

stefanos82 3y ago

Can't read nearly anything unless I force my focus on a specific area. Can you enlarge the fonts please? My vision is not so good. Hint: Editing font-size to 18px (for <div class="sc-4dp71k-0 hIhENr app-app-wrapper">) via web dev tools (Firefox) produces an incredible output for me.

4kimov 3y ago
Yeah, I might've gotten used to it by now - need to experiment a bit & adjust. Thank you for the feedback.
- chrismorgan 3y ago
  Rule of thumb: body text should never be smaller than 16px or (preferably, though the difference is nuanced) 1em as the browser gives it at the root. (This holds for form fields too, with a more concrete technical reason: iOS will zoom in on the field on focus if its font-size is less than 16px.) 12px is pretty much the lower bound of what is ever acceptable, and only in small quantities and for specific purposes, and it’s better not to go down that small.

gbraad 3y ago

work WITH open source seems more fitting

4kimov 3y ago
Oh I like that. It would include people that enjoy working at open-source companies, but their role might not be directly foss-related on the daily (eg: devops, website, etc). Thank you for pointing that out.

ugh123 3y ago

This just looks like a job board for tech companies that also have open source projects, which is most big tech companies and lots of startups

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ZoomZoomZoom 3y ago

Nice initiative! Hope the list grows. It would be nice if you had a fast filter for remote-only postings. Also, your mailing list software drops the part after a `+`, this breaks filtering rules. I'd also like your base to store my address in a form I provided.

4kimov 3y ago
Thank you. Yes you're right, location/remote has to be adjusted for better experience. And I'll see what I can do regarding the email '+', thanks for the heads up.

csomar 3y ago

I am not sure how this made it to the front page or how you justify the click-bait. - These are not paid opportunities for Open Source work. This a job board. The title makes you think that there are gigs to work on some open source projects and get paid for it. - There are no guarantees that these "open source friendly" companies will hire you to work on Open Source. Working on Open Source projects is the exception, not the rule. Unless the company has gone the full OS model, which is just a few startups. And still, sometimes these companies have other kind of work (customization for a certain client) at which point you are not involved in the OS work at all.

nubinetwork 3y ago

All dev jobs and no admin/infra makes bofh cry.

CoolCold 3y ago
H stands for Hell here, while all devs, DX, startups, hype, CTOs are on Clouds. When you say Infra here on HN, you show you are from the past. /sarcasm-not-so-much-sarcasm

timqian 3y ago

FYI: https://github.com/t9tio/open-source-jobs/ https://github.com/t9tio/open-source-jobs/

swaptr 3y ago

The website looks amazing! Good job man!