21 ms·

How does a blind person use a QR code? Not like they can see where the camera is pointing, let alone locate the code in the first place.....

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
The staff or someone with them scans it upon request.
- mindslight 3y ago
  This sounds like "compliance" attorneys gone crazy. It's appalling, but does check out with the bureaucratic cancer eating our society. Waitstaff or the cashier reading menu options sounds like wonderful accommodation. Certainly much more so than impersonally telling a customer to solve their own problem by turning their dining session into a web browsing session.
  - eddythompson80 3y ago
    That's an extremely bigoted way of looking at it. Blind people deserve autonomy too as much as possible. How would you like it if the waitstaff just stood next to you to read the menu to you and wait for you to make a decision? Having a braille option is ideal, but not every vision impaired person can read braille and it puts a significant burden on every establishment. Readers provide a great alternative to that that restores a lot of autonomy to blind people. Why have ADA at all? Just have every disabled person wait for an able-bodied person to just help them with whatever it's they need, right?
    - mindslight 3y ago
      > That's an extremely bigoted way of looking at it... How would you like it if the waitstaff just stood next to you ... and wait for you to make a decision? Since your standard seems to be one of jumping on people and painting with a broad brush - I'm left wondering if you've ever been to a restaurant? It's generally an interactive social process where you're repeatedly prompted if you're ready to order, often with the goal of speeding up your visit. Many times other people at your table will be ready but you won't be, so you'll say things like "Okay, but I'll go last" accepting a little bit of unnecessary stress to help you decide. It's a lot of social give and take compared to the unilaterality of say message board commenting. Back to the objective topic - sure, I do agree with the idea that there should be as many options as possible, web menus are a necessity in this day and age, and putting a link to the web menu at the restaurant only increases choice. But the topic under discussion is restaurants deprecating paper menus in favor of websites only. A theory was put forth this is due in part to ADA compliance - presumably due to some perverse logic that if there is a printed menu there also has to be a braille version of the paper menu, but if there is no printed menu then a braille version isn't required. So the existence of web menus isn't really being questioned (I'll acknowledge having fallen into the incorrect comparison as well). Rather what is being questioned is whether it makes sense to deprecate the overwhelmingly most popular option (printed paper menu) due to questionably-inferred legal requirements to have a third type of accessible menu (braille) in addition to web menus and verbal interaction.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    You do know it effectively only applies to franchises and not to mom and pops, right? Because it sure doesn't seem like you know the first thing about the issue.... And when we don't actually know what we're talking about what are we supposed to do?
- DropInIn 3y ago
  So blind people are required to give a stranger thier unlocked phone? Really, there's not a single thing that can be said to make it less stupid.
  - eddythompson80 3y ago
    Or they can touch and feel the QR sticker and scan it. QR and bar codes are also increasingly more embossed or have borders specifically for that reason. There are special QR reader apps for the blind that help with that more. It is generally the more recommended way by AFB for making your products accessible for the blind https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technology/accessible-identification-systems-people-who-are-blind-1 https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technolog...
    - DropInIn 3y ago
      How are they to know it's a QR code? They don't put them in the same spot always and there's often a no smoking or other stick as well, often several. I could go on but really....
- Mordisquitos 3y ago
  Ok, done! The QR code encodes the URL to download a 19.8 MB beautifully designed menu in PDF format. Now what does the blind person do?
  - eddythompson80 3y ago
    Great straw man, but luckily the solution is easy. Inform the restaurant to use one of the many dozens of menu services that are designed specifically with screen readers in mind. There are also PDF screen readers, but that's less ideal because the PDF needs to be designed with accessibility in mind. https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technology/assistive-technology-products/screen-readers https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technolog...
    - Mordisquitos 3y ago
      ...or a physical menu in braille.
    - DropInIn 3y ago
      Doesn't look like a straw man to me....

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago

The staff or someone with them scans it upon request.

mindslight 3y ago
This sounds like "compliance" attorneys gone crazy. It's appalling, but does check out with the bureaucratic cancer eating our society. Waitstaff or the cashier reading menu options sounds like wonderful accommodation. Certainly much more so than impersonally telling a customer to solve their own problem by turning their dining session into a web browsing session.
- eddythompson80 3y ago
  That's an extremely bigoted way of looking at it. Blind people deserve autonomy too as much as possible. How would you like it if the waitstaff just stood next to you to read the menu to you and wait for you to make a decision? Having a braille option is ideal, but not every vision impaired person can read braille and it puts a significant burden on every establishment. Readers provide a great alternative to that that restores a lot of autonomy to blind people. Why have ADA at all? Just have every disabled person wait for an able-bodied person to just help them with whatever it's they need, right?
  - mindslight 3y ago
    > That's an extremely bigoted way of looking at it... How would you like it if the waitstaff just stood next to you ... and wait for you to make a decision? Since your standard seems to be one of jumping on people and painting with a broad brush - I'm left wondering if you've ever been to a restaurant? It's generally an interactive social process where you're repeatedly prompted if you're ready to order, often with the goal of speeding up your visit. Many times other people at your table will be ready but you won't be, so you'll say things like "Okay, but I'll go last" accepting a little bit of unnecessary stress to help you decide. It's a lot of social give and take compared to the unilaterality of say message board commenting. Back to the objective topic - sure, I do agree with the idea that there should be as many options as possible, web menus are a necessity in this day and age, and putting a link to the web menu at the restaurant only increases choice. But the topic under discussion is restaurants deprecating paper menus in favor of websites only. A theory was put forth this is due in part to ADA compliance - presumably due to some perverse logic that if there is a printed menu there also has to be a braille version of the paper menu, but if there is no printed menu then a braille version isn't required. So the existence of web menus isn't really being questioned (I'll acknowledge having fallen into the incorrect comparison as well). Rather what is being questioned is whether it makes sense to deprecate the overwhelmingly most popular option (printed paper menu) due to questionably-inferred legal requirements to have a third type of accessible menu (braille) in addition to web menus and verbal interaction.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  You do know it effectively only applies to franchises and not to mom and pops, right? Because it sure doesn't seem like you know the first thing about the issue.... And when we don't actually know what we're talking about what are we supposed to do?
DropInIn 3y ago
So blind people are required to give a stranger thier unlocked phone? Really, there's not a single thing that can be said to make it less stupid.
- eddythompson80 3y ago
  Or they can touch and feel the QR sticker and scan it. QR and bar codes are also increasingly more embossed or have borders specifically for that reason. There are special QR reader apps for the blind that help with that more. It is generally the more recommended way by AFB for making your products accessible for the blind https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technology/accessible-identification-systems-people-who-are-blind-1 https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technolog...
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    How are they to know it's a QR code? They don't put them in the same spot always and there's often a no smoking or other stick as well, often several. I could go on but really....
Mordisquitos 3y ago
Ok, done! The QR code encodes the URL to download a 19.8 MB beautifully designed menu in PDF format. Now what does the blind person do?
- eddythompson80 3y ago
  Great straw man, but luckily the solution is easy. Inform the restaurant to use one of the many dozens of menu services that are designed specifically with screen readers in mind. There are also PDF screen readers, but that's less ideal because the PDF needs to be designed with accessibility in mind. https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technology/assistive-technology-products/screen-readers https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technolog...
  - Mordisquitos 3y ago
    ...or a physical menu in braille.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Doesn't look like a straw man to me....