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If you have family members likely to pay for scams, you probably shouldn't give them access to SMS, phone calls or email, for that matter. If they would fall fo

If you have family members likely to pay for scams, you probably shouldn't give them access to SMS, phone calls or email, for that matter. If they would fall for these threat vectors, then they could already be exploited with a link to Safari or a social engineering scam on speakerphone.

brookst 3y ago
Ah, the old "any imperfect solution is totally useless" position. I already have to educate and then console when they fall for email or SMS scams. Are you really saying that means I have to accept a new vector from scam stores that impersonate the Apple app store and just charge $100 for "Free" apps? This regulation will be good for techies AND good for fraudsters. We don't have to pretend there is no downside.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > Are you really saying that means I have to accept a new vector from scam stores that impersonate the Apple app store and just charge $100 for "Free" apps? Yes? It's rather important that they know how to distinguish the two. If they aren't honing these skills, what's stopping them from logging into a fake iCloud dialogue on someone's random website, or feeding their SSN to the "IRS" over the phone? It's not like... a naive request. Talk to aging adults about fraud. They will be subjected to it as long as they have some form of individual agency. It sucks, but it's better than telling ourselves fairytales like "it doesn't exist here, though!"
  - brookst 3y ago
    Thanks, I do this already. I still don’t see why that means government-mandated removal of a consumer protection is an unmitigated good thing. I guess it’s an idealism I just don’t share. I’m not opposed to the EU regulation; I am a fan of policy experimentation. But I do expect EU to see a huge increase in scams and fraud, which I guess we should celebrate?
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > government-mandated removal of a consumer protection is an unmitigated good thing DRM-locking your tires to certain manufacturers is a good thing, arguably. The manufacturer has exact measurements and can arguably make safer tires than anyone else. ...that's not an excuse to allow it, though. Yes, by allowing third-party tire manufacturers we sacrifice a bit of safety. If safety is a foremost concern of the OEM, they can work with third-party manufacturers to ensure they keep the users safe too. > But I do expect EU to see a huge increase in scams and fraud, which I guess we should celebrate? Again - putting a web browser and cell phone onto an iPod ushered in 2 new avenues for fraud. The number of people who were being scammed on-the-go skyrocketed after the release of the iPhone. That doesn't make it a defacto bad release though, and most people would argue both features were a net-positive. So yeah, people did celebrate that newfound freedom. You don't have to use it - you can be the sort of Luddite who only uses Apple Applications and calls the web a hive of scum and villainy if you want. But other people will use it, and probably enjoy and celebrate the feature. Lord knows Mac and Android users have.

brookst 3y ago

Ah, the old "any imperfect solution is totally useless" position. I already have to educate and then console when they fall for email or SMS scams. Are you really saying that means I have to accept a new vector from scam stores that impersonate the Apple app store and just charge $100 for "Free" apps? This regulation will be good for techies AND good for fraudsters. We don't have to pretend there is no downside.

smoldesu 3y ago
> Are you really saying that means I have to accept a new vector from scam stores that impersonate the Apple app store and just charge $100 for "Free" apps? Yes? It's rather important that they know how to distinguish the two. If they aren't honing these skills, what's stopping them from logging into a fake iCloud dialogue on someone's random website, or feeding their SSN to the "IRS" over the phone? It's not like... a naive request. Talk to aging adults about fraud. They will be subjected to it as long as they have some form of individual agency. It sucks, but it's better than telling ourselves fairytales like "it doesn't exist here, though!"
- brookst 3y ago
  Thanks, I do this already. I still don’t see why that means government-mandated removal of a consumer protection is an unmitigated good thing. I guess it’s an idealism I just don’t share. I’m not opposed to the EU regulation; I am a fan of policy experimentation. But I do expect EU to see a huge increase in scams and fraud, which I guess we should celebrate?
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > government-mandated removal of a consumer protection is an unmitigated good thing DRM-locking your tires to certain manufacturers is a good thing, arguably. The manufacturer has exact measurements and can arguably make safer tires than anyone else. ...that's not an excuse to allow it, though. Yes, by allowing third-party tire manufacturers we sacrifice a bit of safety. If safety is a foremost concern of the OEM, they can work with third-party manufacturers to ensure they keep the users safe too. > But I do expect EU to see a huge increase in scams and fraud, which I guess we should celebrate? Again - putting a web browser and cell phone onto an iPod ushered in 2 new avenues for fraud. The number of people who were being scammed on-the-go skyrocketed after the release of the iPhone. That doesn't make it a defacto bad release though, and most people would argue both features were a net-positive. So yeah, people did celebrate that newfound freedom. You don't have to use it - you can be the sort of Luddite who only uses Apple Applications and calls the web a hive of scum and villainy if you want. But other people will use it, and probably enjoy and celebrate the feature. Lord knows Mac and Android users have.