5 ms·

This is a bit of a tangent, but I read the prerequisites for this course and felt the same annoyance that I did when I was in college. I didn’t major in CS, bu

This is a bit of a tangent, but I read the prerequisites for this course and felt the same annoyance that I did when I was in college. I didn’t major in CS, but I wanted to take some CS classes. Several times I had to go back and forth with the course instructor and the director of undergraduate studies in the department, trying to convince them to let me take the class, or at least audit it or get access to the course materials if it was filling up. I was mostly successful, but there were a couple times where I was told I simply could not take the class because I didn’t take the prerequisite. As a lifelong computer nerd and capable programmer, I could have sat the exam for the prerequisite classes without preparation and passed, but they did not allow this. If there are open spots in the classes after all the CS majors signed up for it, then why not just let anyone take it if they’re up for the challenge? You can warn them about the prerequisite knowledge, so if they fail it’s completely on them.

sgeisenh 3y ago
There is an option to circumvent the prerequisites as a non-major: You may also get permission from an advisor if you performed very high on the CS Assessment on Canvas. I took the course over the summer as a music major and subsequently took several other CS courses as a music major after having a discussion with an advisor in the CS department. I ended up finishing a CS degree a year after my music degree. CMU was really great about providing opportunities for students to explore courses outside of their majors, especially over the summer.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  This varies by school. Some will allow you to skip prereqs with instructor or advisor permission, some make that almost impossible. Some may allow you to audit the course but not take it for credit. Honestly for the larger CS classes I took, there were enough people in the class that I doubt anyone would have noticed a person slipping in to a back row seat and just quietly watching. More than once I sat in on classes that I thought I might want to take, to get a better sense of the content and the professor's teaching style.
oslac 3y ago
Prerequisites are mostly fake. You can just study what you need - depth first learning (assuming you are open to self-studying and this is not about academic bureaucracy)
kdsch 3y ago
I also tried to get around prereqs in college (for EE rather than CS) and I was told by the professor that "It would not be good for the university." I believe my university had previously been in trouble with ABET, the accrediting organization, perhaps for the very issue of being too lenient with prerequisites. Apparently ABET wasn't invented to give people opportunities to learn, but to control who has those opportunities based on arbitrary criteria (like GPA).
7thaccount 3y ago
It's not because they're idiots. It's because they want more money and although perhaps they lose your money (probably actually not as you'll take something else), there is more overall in putting up fences that lock people in for many classes. I'm working on a Masters in Economics right now and laughed when they tried to make me take a pre requisite in college math that covered stuff like functions...when I have a bachelor's in engineering and had to take differential equations and multiple years of calculus. I told them flatly it wasn't going to happen and they rechecked and waived it as not being necessary. In your case, they can't see accredited proof of your years of programming experience and the beauracracy doesn't care enough to let you sit for the exams in the other class.
- noelwelsh 3y ago
  Pre-reqs are a simple way to ensure everyone in the course is starting at about the same place. Its very hard to teach a course if some students are lacking the foundational material you're building on.
  - kweingar 3y ago
    But if you make a capable student take the pre-req as a box-ticking exercise, then they often enter that class (edit: the pre-req class) way ahead of everyone else.
    - hgsgm 3y ago
      Why? If retaking a prereq is a huge boost for you, you didn't learn it well the first time.
      - kweingar 3y ago
        My last comment was a little ambiguous, sorry. I meant that you’ll often enter the pre-req well ahead of the others. In many of my early college classes, there were people who already knew most or all of the material and were just there because they had to be.
    - 3y ago
hgsgm 3y ago
> You must have gotten a 5 on the AP Computer Science A exam > or passed 15-112 (Fundamentals of Programming) > or equivalent. > You may also get permission from an advisor if you performed very high on the CS Assessment on Canvas. Maybe they feel that people who have trouble reading a syllabus would have trouble completing the course?

sgeisenh 3y ago

There is an option to circumvent the prerequisites as a non-major: You may also get permission from an advisor if you performed very high on the CS Assessment on Canvas. I took the course over the summer as a music major and subsequently took several other CS courses as a music major after having a discussion with an advisor in the CS department. I ended up finishing a CS degree a year after my music degree. CMU was really great about providing opportunities for students to explore courses outside of their majors, especially over the summer.

SoftTalker 3y ago
This varies by school. Some will allow you to skip prereqs with instructor or advisor permission, some make that almost impossible. Some may allow you to audit the course but not take it for credit. Honestly for the larger CS classes I took, there were enough people in the class that I doubt anyone would have noticed a person slipping in to a back row seat and just quietly watching. More than once I sat in on classes that I thought I might want to take, to get a better sense of the content and the professor's teaching style.

oslac 3y ago

Prerequisites are mostly fake. You can just study what you need - depth first learning (assuming you are open to self-studying and this is not about academic bureaucracy)

kdsch 3y ago

I also tried to get around prereqs in college (for EE rather than CS) and I was told by the professor that "It would not be good for the university." I believe my university had previously been in trouble with ABET, the accrediting organization, perhaps for the very issue of being too lenient with prerequisites. Apparently ABET wasn't invented to give people opportunities to learn, but to control who has those opportunities based on arbitrary criteria (like GPA).

7thaccount 3y ago

It's not because they're idiots. It's because they want more money and although perhaps they lose your money (probably actually not as you'll take something else), there is more overall in putting up fences that lock people in for many classes. I'm working on a Masters in Economics right now and laughed when they tried to make me take a pre requisite in college math that covered stuff like functions...when I have a bachelor's in engineering and had to take differential equations and multiple years of calculus. I told them flatly it wasn't going to happen and they rechecked and waived it as not being necessary. In your case, they can't see accredited proof of your years of programming experience and the beauracracy doesn't care enough to let you sit for the exams in the other class.

noelwelsh 3y ago
Pre-reqs are a simple way to ensure everyone in the course is starting at about the same place. Its very hard to teach a course if some students are lacking the foundational material you're building on.
- kweingar 3y ago
  But if you make a capable student take the pre-req as a box-ticking exercise, then they often enter that class (edit: the pre-req class) way ahead of everyone else.
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    Why? If retaking a prereq is a huge boost for you, you didn't learn it well the first time.
    - kweingar 3y ago
      My last comment was a little ambiguous, sorry. I meant that you’ll often enter the pre-req well ahead of the others. In many of my early college classes, there were people who already knew most or all of the material and were just there because they had to be.
  - 3y ago

hgsgm 3y ago

> You must have gotten a 5 on the AP Computer Science A exam > or passed 15-112 (Fundamentals of Programming) > or equivalent. > You may also get permission from an advisor if you performed very high on the CS Assessment on Canvas. Maybe they feel that people who have trouble reading a syllabus would have trouble completing the course?