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I think the kinds of quality issues people are taking issue with are primarily with the power-trains. No doubt some other features have seen disappointments esp

I think the kinds of quality issues people are taking issue with are primarily with the power-trains. No doubt some other features have seen disappointments especially the infotainment systems like you said though. Toyota only recently introduced a brand new Truck engine which replaced their previous 5.7L naturally aspirated V8. Presumably because they sell a lot of smaller cars they were able to keep the 5.7 for so long, it got worst-in-class gas mileage. But their clients loved that engine and there's only one reason you completely ditch a SKU the vast majority likes, emission standards. It's all being driven by emission standards. I'm not saying that's a totally bad thing either, I'm hoping to one day walk down a busy street and not have to breath in toxic fumes. But I think we all should know what the actual cause is that's helping drive car prices up and predictability/dependability down.

lttlrck 3y ago
It's a good point. Where a larger normally aspirated engine would have sufficed manufacturers have shifted to smaller turbocharged engines that are significantly more complicated, more mechanical strain on the core engine, more mechanical parts, more cooling, more hoses, valves and electronics to control it all. Due to emissions. And hybridization on top of that. ICE is at the end of the road. Consumers and manufacturers are between two stools - a huge course correction. It'll take at least another decade, probably two before it's completed.
analyte123 3y ago
It’s really about fuel economy, not emissions, unless you’re counting CO2 as an emission. Idle-off that makes it so you can’t steer while stopped at a red light, unreliable CVTs, sloppy gas pedals in eco-mode that you have to disable every time, the list goes on and on, and no driver ever asked for it. In general the CAFE fleet average rule makes it so that each manufacturer gets to build 1 or 2 interesting cars and the rest have to be weak econoboxes. Maybe the whole point of ratcheting fuel economy standards so high is to make ICE cars worse and eventually illegal.

lttlrck 3y ago

It's a good point. Where a larger normally aspirated engine would have sufficed manufacturers have shifted to smaller turbocharged engines that are significantly more complicated, more mechanical strain on the core engine, more mechanical parts, more cooling, more hoses, valves and electronics to control it all. Due to emissions. And hybridization on top of that. ICE is at the end of the road. Consumers and manufacturers are between two stools - a huge course correction. It'll take at least another decade, probably two before it's completed.

analyte123 3y ago

It’s really about fuel economy, not emissions, unless you’re counting CO2 as an emission. Idle-off that makes it so you can’t steer while stopped at a red light, unreliable CVTs, sloppy gas pedals in eco-mode that you have to disable every time, the list goes on and on, and no driver ever asked for it. In general the CAFE fleet average rule makes it so that each manufacturer gets to build 1 or 2 interesting cars and the rest have to be weak econoboxes. Maybe the whole point of ratcheting fuel economy standards so high is to make ICE cars worse and eventually illegal.