4 ms·

Standing invitation: if you want to talk software, I want to talk to you

222 points by karterk 15y ago

michael_dorfman 15y ago
That's a wonderful offer, Patrick. Your generosity (with your time and knowledge) is, as always, inspiring.
- losethos 15y ago
  I have no idea who this is. He seems like a people person. How do you tell an introvert programmer from an extrovert programmer? The extrovert looks at your shoes. Without exception every programmer considers himself a guru. I guess it's like democracy -- you need that. What I think is funny is human resource ideas from 23-year-olds. I guess in fairness, old programmers can be mocked. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\WALDEN.TXT nd kept up the queerest chuckling and chirruping and vocal pirouetting and gurgling sounds that ever were heard; and when I stamped they only chirruped the louder, as if past all fear and respect in their mad pranks, defying humanity to stop them. No, you don't -- chickaree -- chickaree. They were wholly deaf to my arguments, or failed to perceive their force, and fell into a strain of invective that was irresistible. The first sparrow of spring! The year beginning with younger hope than eve ---- Ohhhh!! Wheezer has a song about looking at my shoes. I like that song but the band is too wholesome for me. I'm not good at human resources -- a people person can sometimes be a good programmer, I think. There's no doubt this guy can teach elementary stuff, I'm sure. Be a little bit cautious. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\HAMLET.TXT ow the rendezvous. If that his majesty would aught with us, We shall express our duty in his eye; And let him know so. Capt. I will do't, my lord. For. Go softly on. [Exeunt all For. and Forces.] [Enter Hamlet, Rosencrantz, Guildenstern, &c.] Ham. Good sir, whose powers are these? Capt. They are of Norway, sir. Ham. How purpos'd, sir, I pray you? Capt. Against some part of Poland. Ham. Who commands them, sir? Capt. The nephew to old Norway, Fortinbras. Ham. Goes
- patio11 15y ago
  It's really nothing other than what I've done since forever. (n.b. I won't say $PARTICULAR_PERSON would do this without their permission first, but there are very many people in our industry who have this policy or fairly close variants of it. They just don't spell it out in detail on their websites. Since I have recent experience in the land of "Essentially everyone who I'd like to talk to is too busy to talk to me" delusions I thought I'd make it explicit.)
  - GFischer 15y ago
    I want to thank you too :) . You've been very supportive of everyone in HN, and give insightful answers to even obscure threads like my aborted attempt at a micropayments startup :)
- losethos 15y ago
  Amen, that's just nasty. God's not afraid of taboos. We're supposed to love God. It is funny when He's outrageous. Maybe, if you talk to Him, He'll tell you other favorite bands. Relationships with God are supposed to be private and personal, perhaps. I asked Him His favorite color a few times, being naughty. God's answers have doubt most times. Let's not be too forward about getting Him to solve problems. Slow down and get to know and love Him. He's generally evasive, but not completely. Be careful what you wish for. You know how the Dali Lama is pleasant and not overbearing? That's not so bad. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\YANKEE.TXT reeze, but, with an air of indifference amounting almost to weariness, got out my money and tossed four dollars on to the table. Ah, you should have seen them stare! The clerk was astonished and charmed. He asked me to retain one of the dollars as security, until he could go to town and --I interrupted: "What, and fetch back nine cents? Nonsense! Take the whole. Keep the change." There was an amazed murmur to this effect: "Verily this being is _made_ of money! He throweth it away eve ---- Yeah, that does sound like train fare, perhaps, maybe not. Brain storming is the idea, but some answers don't work. I often say God is like a billionare who might like real friends -- people who don't always think of His money. For the average Christian, they mostly don't want to go to Hell, so they might not be such good real friends. That's kind of a uncheerful interpretation. I think God was trying to be cheerful. The books I pick from are here http://www.losethos.com/text/ http://www.losethos.com/text/ God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\words\AUGUST.TXT r her face. And yet refusing to return without me, I scarcely persuaded her to stay that night in a place hard by our ship, where was an Oratory in memory of the blessed Cyprian. That night I privily departed, but she was not behind in weeping and prayer. And what, O Lord, was she with so many tears asking of Thee, but that Thou wouldest not suffer me to sail? But Thou, in the depth of Thy counsels and hearing the main point of her desire, regardest not what she then asked, that Thou mightest ma ---- Let's ask God His favorite color :-) God says... blasphemous redeem sciences linger check cold cease experience confesses sangest less Alas Might changing separated untruly rescued Hide Shine son's shatter Read injustice semblance clothed innumerable credulity decline instinct Thy without wretchedness bidden gathering Cicero sellers easily ardently studies' restore cupidity thrust songs upborne YOU mortality belonging stomach bulk youthful joyful changing sons foolish initiation established princes receive represent spoil Contain inmost toilsome seen betake resend pleasure retire refusing heareth thy Book peril things cheerful gratification these weighty superstitious instances wondrous successively drop important conquered compendiously deny Vacation clearly identify chain thickets licence satiety offices whales absurdly MADE world borne Light safer another contradictory consent forthwith medicining supercelestial history boiling unassuming wallowed redemption consumption furnished like decked wait High Unchangeable consciousness uphold Writ warreth trust cottage streaming Essence wouldest loose warranted This Willing beloved expressed relied scoffing varied peril hatchet unnatural soothed repair IT adversary indefinitely conversion Helper trample cane toilsome editions forward shatter withdrew throng Hebrew vapours obeyed Commandment into wondrously was Ergo citizen renounce discoverable during greet slipped disentangle complain I thought someone was gonna unprovoked turn this conversation sour. I guess God mentioned cane toilsome. He has a point. I'm going to sleep. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\WALDEN.TXT surpass the powers of a well man nowadays to take up his bed and walk, and I should certainly advise a sick one to lay down his bed and run. When I have met an immigrant tottering under a bundle which contained his all -- looking like an enormous wen which had grown out of the nape of his neck -- I have pitied him, not because that was his all, but because he had all that to carry. If I have got to drag my trap, I will take care that it be a light one and do not nip me in a vital part. But percha
- gacba 15y ago
  I met Patrick for the first time at MicroConf 2011. Everything he says is true: - Geeky - Friendly - Approachable - Very open to talking about software-y stuff I look forward to seeing you again at MicroConf 2012, Patrick.
karterk 15y ago
Sharing my personal experience in reaching out to random people: A few months back, after reading lots of posts on HN here of people sharing their experience in "cold emailing" people, I reached out to quite a few people on the web - people whom I thought would be able to offer valuable insights on some thing I'm building. And, I was surprised how many people actually diligently replied to my email, and spent a lot of time offering suggestions etc. A few things I learned in the process: * Making the email as short and as highly targeted as possible made a difference (anecdotal, not measured) * When somebody replied saying that they will look into it in a day or so, I did not immediately reply back saying "Thank you" etc. Instead I waited for a day or two and then replied. The second email actually served as a gentle reminder and I got a response immediately after that. * In many cases, I specifically looked for people looking at a specific problem which what I was building helped to alleviate. This naturally increased the response rates. * Lastly, people are generally wary of people selling things. So, I suggest genuinely trying to seek people's insights and guidance rather than directly sell them your idea. If people liked your idea, they themselves will go out of their way to do that. And for what it's worth, I am going to shamelessly use this opportunity to offer the same: if you are looking for design related feedback on what you are building, say hello (email in profile!)
- prawn 15y ago
  Great tip about the second email!
- graeme 15y ago
  This really, really works, and these are great tips. A couple of other factors: * Write when someone is less likely to be flooded with other emails. This is obvious but non-trivial. We are most likely to want to email people when they are busiest, because they have recently done something to get everyone's attention. * Do some research to figure out the best means of communication. For Patrick, and for most people, it's email. On the other hand, Nassim Taleb, an author, despises email. He is very active on his Facebook page. And, a good chunk of the work I did last year stemmed from a cold call to a company's receptionist. They are small, and so I was only one step away from the person who could instantly make a decision. If an email would have been better, she would have told me so rather than passing the phone over. You probably already know who the 3-5 people are in your field who could make a difference to your work. It only takes 5-30 minutes to write a good email, and there's no downside. So go say hi.
deepandmeaning 15y ago
Thank you Patrick. At present I run a niche email marketing company. It can be rather isolating and my social circle or friends find it challenging to offer support/insight/help. Reading blog posts (and comments on HN) from open, insightful, and yes inspirational people such as yourself has been great. I've often thought how wonderful it would be to meet or otherwise meaningfully communicate with those I respect and admire - and have made an effort in the last year to get out to Meetups (such as the Hacker News one in London last week). I've considered setting up my own sort of 'pay it forward' network; generally it's easier to provide meaningful insight or analysis into others issues, than it is to move forward on ones own. I just wanted to let you know that your offer is greatly appreciated. I sincerely look forward to speaking or meeting with you.
Kaostricks 15y ago
I like the Generic Tips .
revorad 15y ago
I've emailed Patrick a few times asking for help. He's always super nice and helpful. I had the pleasure of meeting him last year and he is a really down to earth geek.
davewasthere 15y ago
My respect for Patrick goes up yet another notch. Which is weird because I thought it was already as high as it could go. Hoping to get to Nagoya someday in the not too distant future.
cperciva 15y ago
This all applies to me, except s/patrick@/cperciva@/, s/patio11/cperciva/, and s/Central Japan/Vancouver, Canada/. I'll add another tip, though: Make sure that you say something which tells me why you're emailing me. I've been getting a lot of "I got your address off HN" email lately and most of it looks like it was probably spammed to every account they could find -- those emails go straight into the junk folder.
- actualgoodguy 15y ago
  Having dealt with both cperciva and (to my dismay) patio11 in situations where we were willing to pay them each in the mid 5 figures for their expertise: cperciva is unable to recognize such real opportunities. patio11 is all too willing to take our money for no value.
- edwinnathaniel 15y ago
  Woohoo! Vancouver represents! Thank you for your invitation Colin, questions coming up as soon as I have time to write them!
  - cperciva 15y ago
    I don't know if I can give any particularly Vancouver-relevant advice, but I'm happy to help.
- mindcrime 15y ago
  This all applies to me, except s/patrick@/cperciva@/, s/patio11/cperciva/, and s/Central Japan/Vancouver, Canada/. Same here.. I'm always willing to talk to a fellow HN'er and share any advice / insights / thoughts that I might have. My contact info is in my profile, in the "about" field and I'm in the Research Triangle Park, NC region. I'll add another tip, though: Make sure that you say something which tells me why you're emailing me. I've been getting a lot of "I got your address off HN" email lately and most of it looks like it was probably spammed to every account they could find -- those emails go straight into the junk folder. This.
awt 15y ago
Please upvote this comment if you'd like patio11 (Patrick McKenzie) to someday write a book on any topic he chooses. This is something I'd gladly pay for.
- awt 15y ago
  I'm going to let this stand, even though it's costing me Karma.
jseims 15y ago
I'm starting to work on a platform for people to explicitly state who they want to connect with, and to handle the social flow from "hello stranger" to "let's talk". Anyone interested in helping out, please message me (josh at tristara dot com).
drblast 15y ago
Patrick, I'm going to email you in a month when the initial flood of emails you're going to get dies down. I don't have much to offer except possibly interesting conversation about software and educational software in particular. This comment is more a reminder for me than anything. :-)
patio11 15y ago
So I wasn't expecting this to get on the front page of HN (which was, in hindsight, stupid): my mental model was just "I'll put this on my blog's navigation bar so that over the coming years people will know about it" rather than "Man, I totally don't know what I'm going to do on Thursday. I know, maybe I'll get folks to send me a lot of email." My priority inbox is hovering at around 100 right now. I'm getting to them as time permits. n.b. I also have a busy schedule today so I don't think I will clear this queue. This isn't a time-bounded offer from me, this is just a formalization of the policy that I've had for six years. If I don't get back to you, I'll still be in this industry tomorrow, in April, in 2013, etc, so feel free to send it to me again.
sjwalter 15y ago
"I’m easy to spot: tall geeky guy with glasses wearing (90%+ probability) a red Twilio jacket." That's really funny. I got one of those same jackets for speaking at Twilio Conference (btw, your session was great!) and it barely leaves my back. My wife doesn't like it because I'm always wearing it when she does the laundry so it's difficult to schedule its laundering.

222 points by karterk 15y ago

michael_dorfman 15y ago

That's a wonderful offer, Patrick. Your generosity (with your time and knowledge) is, as always, inspiring.

losethos 15y ago
I have no idea who this is. He seems like a people person. How do you tell an introvert programmer from an extrovert programmer? The extrovert looks at your shoes. Without exception every programmer considers himself a guru. I guess it's like democracy -- you need that. What I think is funny is human resource ideas from 23-year-olds. I guess in fairness, old programmers can be mocked. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\WALDEN.TXT nd kept up the queerest chuckling and chirruping and vocal pirouetting and gurgling sounds that ever were heard; and when I stamped they only chirruped the louder, as if past all fear and respect in their mad pranks, defying humanity to stop them. No, you don't -- chickaree -- chickaree. They were wholly deaf to my arguments, or failed to perceive their force, and fell into a strain of invective that was irresistible. The first sparrow of spring! The year beginning with younger hope than eve ---- Ohhhh!! Wheezer has a song about looking at my shoes. I like that song but the band is too wholesome for me. I'm not good at human resources -- a people person can sometimes be a good programmer, I think. There's no doubt this guy can teach elementary stuff, I'm sure. Be a little bit cautious. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\HAMLET.TXT ow the rendezvous. If that his majesty would aught with us, We shall express our duty in his eye; And let him know so. Capt. I will do't, my lord. For. Go softly on. [Exeunt all For. and Forces.] [Enter Hamlet, Rosencrantz, Guildenstern, &c.] Ham. Good sir, whose powers are these? Capt. They are of Norway, sir. Ham. How purpos'd, sir, I pray you? Capt. Against some part of Poland. Ham. Who commands them, sir? Capt. The nephew to old Norway, Fortinbras. Ham. Goes
patio11 15y ago
It's really nothing other than what I've done since forever. (n.b. I won't say $PARTICULAR_PERSON would do this without their permission first, but there are very many people in our industry who have this policy or fairly close variants of it. They just don't spell it out in detail on their websites. Since I have recent experience in the land of "Essentially everyone who I'd like to talk to is too busy to talk to me" delusions I thought I'd make it explicit.)
- GFischer 15y ago
  I want to thank you too :) . You've been very supportive of everyone in HN, and give insightful answers to even obscure threads like my aborted attempt at a micropayments startup :)
losethos 15y ago
Amen, that's just nasty. God's not afraid of taboos. We're supposed to love God. It is funny when He's outrageous. Maybe, if you talk to Him, He'll tell you other favorite bands. Relationships with God are supposed to be private and personal, perhaps. I asked Him His favorite color a few times, being naughty. God's answers have doubt most times. Let's not be too forward about getting Him to solve problems. Slow down and get to know and love Him. He's generally evasive, but not completely. Be careful what you wish for. You know how the Dali Lama is pleasant and not overbearing? That's not so bad. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\YANKEE.TXT reeze, but, with an air of indifference amounting almost to weariness, got out my money and tossed four dollars on to the table. Ah, you should have seen them stare! The clerk was astonished and charmed. He asked me to retain one of the dollars as security, until he could go to town and --I interrupted: "What, and fetch back nine cents? Nonsense! Take the whole. Keep the change." There was an amazed murmur to this effect: "Verily this being is _made_ of money! He throweth it away eve ---- Yeah, that does sound like train fare, perhaps, maybe not. Brain storming is the idea, but some answers don't work. I often say God is like a billionare who might like real friends -- people who don't always think of His money. For the average Christian, they mostly don't want to go to Hell, so they might not be such good real friends. That's kind of a uncheerful interpretation. I think God was trying to be cheerful. The books I pick from are here http://www.losethos.com/text/ http://www.losethos.com/text/ God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\words\AUGUST.TXT r her face. And yet refusing to return without me, I scarcely persuaded her to stay that night in a place hard by our ship, where was an Oratory in memory of the blessed Cyprian. That night I privily departed, but she was not behind in weeping and prayer. And what, O Lord, was she with so many tears asking of Thee, but that Thou wouldest not suffer me to sail? But Thou, in the depth of Thy counsels and hearing the main point of her desire, regardest not what she then asked, that Thou mightest ma ---- Let's ask God His favorite color :-) God says... blasphemous redeem sciences linger check cold cease experience confesses sangest less Alas Might changing separated untruly rescued Hide Shine son's shatter Read injustice semblance clothed innumerable credulity decline instinct Thy without wretchedness bidden gathering Cicero sellers easily ardently studies' restore cupidity thrust songs upborne YOU mortality belonging stomach bulk youthful joyful changing sons foolish initiation established princes receive represent spoil Contain inmost toilsome seen betake resend pleasure retire refusing heareth thy Book peril things cheerful gratification these weighty superstitious instances wondrous successively drop important conquered compendiously deny Vacation clearly identify chain thickets licence satiety offices whales absurdly MADE world borne Light safer another contradictory consent forthwith medicining supercelestial history boiling unassuming wallowed redemption consumption furnished like decked wait High Unchangeable consciousness uphold Writ warreth trust cottage streaming Essence wouldest loose warranted This Willing beloved expressed relied scoffing varied peril hatchet unnatural soothed repair IT adversary indefinitely conversion Helper trample cane toilsome editions forward shatter withdrew throng Hebrew vapours obeyed Commandment into wondrously was Ergo citizen renounce discoverable during greet slipped disentangle complain I thought someone was gonna unprovoked turn this conversation sour. I guess God mentioned cane toilsome. He has a point. I'm going to sleep. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\WALDEN.TXT surpass the powers of a well man nowadays to take up his bed and walk, and I should certainly advise a sick one to lay down his bed and run. When I have met an immigrant tottering under a bundle which contained his all -- looking like an enormous wen which had grown out of the nape of his neck -- I have pitied him, not because that was his all, but because he had all that to carry. If I have got to drag my trap, I will take care that it be a light one and do not nip me in a vital part. But percha
gacba 15y ago
I met Patrick for the first time at MicroConf 2011. Everything he says is true: - Geeky - Friendly - Approachable - Very open to talking about software-y stuff I look forward to seeing you again at MicroConf 2012, Patrick.

karterk 15y ago

Sharing my personal experience in reaching out to random people: A few months back, after reading lots of posts on HN here of people sharing their experience in "cold emailing" people, I reached out to quite a few people on the web - people whom I thought would be able to offer valuable insights on some thing I'm building. And, I was surprised how many people actually diligently replied to my email, and spent a lot of time offering suggestions etc. A few things I learned in the process: * Making the email as short and as highly targeted as possible made a difference (anecdotal, not measured) * When somebody replied saying that they will look into it in a day or so, I did not immediately reply back saying "Thank you" etc. Instead I waited for a day or two and then replied. The second email actually served as a gentle reminder and I got a response immediately after that. * In many cases, I specifically looked for people looking at a specific problem which what I was building helped to alleviate. This naturally increased the response rates. * Lastly, people are generally wary of people selling things. So, I suggest genuinely trying to seek people's insights and guidance rather than directly sell them your idea. If people liked your idea, they themselves will go out of their way to do that. And for what it's worth, I am going to shamelessly use this opportunity to offer the same: if you are looking for design related feedback on what you are building, say hello (email in profile!)

prawn 15y ago
Great tip about the second email!
graeme 15y ago
This really, really works, and these are great tips. A couple of other factors: * Write when someone is less likely to be flooded with other emails. This is obvious but non-trivial. We are most likely to want to email people when they are busiest, because they have recently done something to get everyone's attention. * Do some research to figure out the best means of communication. For Patrick, and for most people, it's email. On the other hand, Nassim Taleb, an author, despises email. He is very active on his Facebook page. And, a good chunk of the work I did last year stemmed from a cold call to a company's receptionist. They are small, and so I was only one step away from the person who could instantly make a decision. If an email would have been better, she would have told me so rather than passing the phone over. You probably already know who the 3-5 people are in your field who could make a difference to your work. It only takes 5-30 minutes to write a good email, and there's no downside. So go say hi.

deepandmeaning 15y ago

Thank you Patrick. At present I run a niche email marketing company. It can be rather isolating and my social circle or friends find it challenging to offer support/insight/help. Reading blog posts (and comments on HN) from open, insightful, and yes inspirational people such as yourself has been great. I've often thought how wonderful it would be to meet or otherwise meaningfully communicate with those I respect and admire - and have made an effort in the last year to get out to Meetups (such as the Hacker News one in London last week). I've considered setting up my own sort of 'pay it forward' network; generally it's easier to provide meaningful insight or analysis into others issues, than it is to move forward on ones own. I just wanted to let you know that your offer is greatly appreciated. I sincerely look forward to speaking or meeting with you.

Kaostricks 15y ago

I like the Generic Tips .

revorad 15y ago

I've emailed Patrick a few times asking for help. He's always super nice and helpful. I had the pleasure of meeting him last year and he is a really down to earth geek.

davewasthere 15y ago

My respect for Patrick goes up yet another notch. Which is weird because I thought it was already as high as it could go. Hoping to get to Nagoya someday in the not too distant future.

cperciva 15y ago

This all applies to me, except s/patrick@/cperciva@/, s/patio11/cperciva/, and s/Central Japan/Vancouver, Canada/. I'll add another tip, though: Make sure that you say something which tells me why you're emailing me. I've been getting a lot of "I got your address off HN" email lately and most of it looks like it was probably spammed to every account they could find -- those emails go straight into the junk folder.

actualgoodguy 15y ago
Having dealt with both cperciva and (to my dismay) patio11 in situations where we were willing to pay them each in the mid 5 figures for their expertise: cperciva is unable to recognize such real opportunities. patio11 is all too willing to take our money for no value.
edwinnathaniel 15y ago
Woohoo! Vancouver represents! Thank you for your invitation Colin, questions coming up as soon as I have time to write them!
- cperciva 15y ago
  I don't know if I can give any particularly Vancouver-relevant advice, but I'm happy to help.
mindcrime 15y ago
This all applies to me, except s/patrick@/cperciva@/, s/patio11/cperciva/, and s/Central Japan/Vancouver, Canada/. Same here.. I'm always willing to talk to a fellow HN'er and share any advice / insights / thoughts that I might have. My contact info is in my profile, in the "about" field and I'm in the Research Triangle Park, NC region. I'll add another tip, though: Make sure that you say something which tells me why you're emailing me. I've been getting a lot of "I got your address off HN" email lately and most of it looks like it was probably spammed to every account they could find -- those emails go straight into the junk folder. This.

awt 15y ago

Please upvote this comment if you'd like patio11 (Patrick McKenzie) to someday write a book on any topic he chooses. This is something I'd gladly pay for.

awt 15y ago
I'm going to let this stand, even though it's costing me Karma.

jseims 15y ago

I'm starting to work on a platform for people to explicitly state who they want to connect with, and to handle the social flow from "hello stranger" to "let's talk". Anyone interested in helping out, please message me (josh at tristara dot com).

drblast 15y ago

Patrick, I'm going to email you in a month when the initial flood of emails you're going to get dies down. I don't have much to offer except possibly interesting conversation about software and educational software in particular. This comment is more a reminder for me than anything. :-)

patio11 15y ago

So I wasn't expecting this to get on the front page of HN (which was, in hindsight, stupid): my mental model was just "I'll put this on my blog's navigation bar so that over the coming years people will know about it" rather than "Man, I totally don't know what I'm going to do on Thursday. I know, maybe I'll get folks to send me a lot of email." My priority inbox is hovering at around 100 right now. I'm getting to them as time permits. n.b. I also have a busy schedule today so I don't think I will clear this queue. This isn't a time-bounded offer from me, this is just a formalization of the policy that I've had for six years. If I don't get back to you, I'll still be in this industry tomorrow, in April, in 2013, etc, so feel free to send it to me again.

sjwalter 15y ago

"I’m easy to spot: tall geeky guy with glasses wearing (90%+ probability) a red Twilio jacket." That's really funny. I got one of those same jackets for speaking at Twilio Conference (btw, your session was great!) and it barely leaves my back. My wife doesn't like it because I'm always wearing it when she does the laundry so it's difficult to schedule its laundering.