3 ms·

Couldn't they just distribute the class ability level correctly using a placement test?

voakbasda 3y ago
The advanced students looking to boost their grade could easily lower their score intentionally, so they get sorted into the beginner group.
- anticensor 3y ago
  There is a solution to that too: Have the placement exam counted as a proficiency course in the student grades, like foreign language requirements or scientific prep courses in graduate-level schools for those majored in a different field.
  - chongli 3y ago
    My school is a public university. They’re not allowed to introduce mandatory placement exams like that. They have to work within the government-set high school curriculum. They also don’t want to allow the advanced students to “test out” of the intro course, as some schools do, because the advanced students may be highly skilled at programming but totally lacking in introductory CS knowledge.
    - sharma-arjun 3y ago
      Yeah, it's extremely common for people to be extremely prolific programmers in high school, without having much knowledge of foundational computer science or algorithm concepts. Source: Am a high school programmer
    - joker_minmax 3y ago
      I went to a public university and they determined which mathematics class you started in by your ACT/SAT or AP test scores. I guess I'm just struggling to see why a programming course would be any different, or why a placement test would be prohibited when they're already using the standardized test scores as a placement test of sorts. Unless things have changed in the last five years.
chefandy 3y ago
(to be clear, I was never a Harvard College undergrad. I was a degree candidate in a Harvard Extension program before transferring, and I worked for Harvard for over two decades, one of them full-time.) Firstly, a big part of the allure of CS50 is the fact that it's one big ol' nerdy computer party and you're invited! Secondly, and I'm not trying to sell the Harvard mystique, but considering that Harvard's acceptance rate is 4%, the students handle brick-wall challenges gracefully. Additionally, they don't necessarily want students that are going to do poorly in CS50 to pursue computer science at Harvard, so I'm sure it also serves as an effective bouncer for all of the students who haven't decided on their concentration deciding that they'll do CS because tech is sexy right now. The lectures look pretty straightforward, but we had to write code involving basic data structures and memory management in C on our paper midterm exams, with no reference, administered in a lecture hall. It's probably tough for kids that are used to acing everything, but it's a lot easier to find out you don't like CS in CS50 than it is to find out after choking on discrete math or a compiler class. And as my first-year expository writing professor said after assigning like 70 pages of close-reading Kant for a weekly assignment, "Will it be difficult? Yes. Reading Kant is like running in sand. But that's why you decided to go to Harvard."

The advanced students looking to boost their grade could easily lower their score intentionally, so they get sorted into the beginner group.

anticensor 3y ago
There is a solution to that too: Have the placement exam counted as a proficiency course in the student grades, like foreign language requirements or scientific prep courses in graduate-level schools for those majored in a different field.
- chongli 3y ago
  My school is a public university. They’re not allowed to introduce mandatory placement exams like that. They have to work within the government-set high school curriculum. They also don’t want to allow the advanced students to “test out” of the intro course, as some schools do, because the advanced students may be highly skilled at programming but totally lacking in introductory CS knowledge.
  - sharma-arjun 3y ago
    Yeah, it's extremely common for people to be extremely prolific programmers in high school, without having much knowledge of foundational computer science or algorithm concepts. Source: Am a high school programmer
  - joker_minmax 3y ago
    I went to a public university and they determined which mathematics class you started in by your ACT/SAT or AP test scores. I guess I'm just struggling to see why a programming course would be any different, or why a placement test would be prohibited when they're already using the standardized test scores as a placement test of sorts. Unless things have changed in the last five years.

chefandy 3y ago

(to be clear, I was never a Harvard College undergrad. I was a degree candidate in a Harvard Extension program before transferring, and I worked for Harvard for over two decades, one of them full-time.) Firstly, a big part of the allure of CS50 is the fact that it's one big ol' nerdy computer party and you're invited! Secondly, and I'm not trying to sell the Harvard mystique, but considering that Harvard's acceptance rate is 4%, the students handle brick-wall challenges gracefully. Additionally, they don't necessarily want students that are going to do poorly in CS50 to pursue computer science at Harvard, so I'm sure it also serves as an effective bouncer for all of the students who haven't decided on their concentration deciding that they'll do CS because tech is sexy right now. The lectures look pretty straightforward, but we had to write code involving basic data structures and memory management in C on our paper midterm exams, with no reference, administered in a lecture hall. It's probably tough for kids that are used to acing everything, but it's a lot easier to find out you don't like CS in CS50 than it is to find out after choking on discrete math or a compiler class. And as my first-year expository writing professor said after assigning like 70 pages of close-reading Kant for a weekly assignment, "Will it be difficult? Yes. Reading Kant is like running in sand. But that's why you decided to go to Harvard."