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> don't expect engineers to do anything other than exactly what is requested. and no more. > don't expect engineers to answer question that was not asked. be t
by ravenstine 3y ago
> don't expect engineers to do anything other than exactly what is requested. and no more.
> don't expect engineers to answer question that was not asked. be thorough in your requirements. don't make assumptions about prior knowledge.
The inverse unfortunately describes just about every PM I've had to work with. Good developers should be asking questions to fill in any gaps in requirements that aren't likely to be considered by non-developers, but it ultimately shouldn't be their responsibility to figure out the requirements. If a PM can't provide useful feature requirements, then they probably should be fired.
Here's how things typically go:
- PM comes back from meeting with product owners and writes a bunch of tickets with a title and single sentence like "do the thing."
- During backlog grooming, engineers are forced to ask the PM to provide more context and acceptance criteria. The PM pulls some AC out of their ass. Because the grooming is capped at an hour, all AC and behavioral descriptions are half-assed, and contain contradictions. Developers are burned out from constantly wondering WTF and just want to get out of there. Most if not all groomed tickets are wrong in some way.
- PM meets again with product owners and designers to discuss changes to features being worked on. PM fails to update most of the tickets that relate to said changes. Designers, who seem to usually work outside the sprint process, make changes to their mockups without notifying developers. Developers stumble across changes to the mockups midway through developing a feature and go "WTF?" Or they've already submitted a PR and another developer notices that the work doesn't match the mockups.
- Developers have Zoom meeting with PM and designers to ask "WTF?" Nobody takes responsibility. PM pretends to clear up ambiguity by taking suggestions from the developers and changing the AC of the ticket. Designers pretty much roll over to whatever the group decides because they just want to get out of there.
- PM presents merged feature to product owners. Turns out the PM didn't read their minds correctly, and so follow up tickets are filed. Some of those tickets vindicate the developer's concerns or revert changes made to the AC during the sprint.
- Developers are told to "ask more questions" in order to "close the loop" during sprints so that this circus doesn't happen again, passing blame to developers and further guaranteeing that the circus continues.
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y ago> Turns out the PM didn't read their minds correctly that's what frustrating. why should the engineer ask the pm to ask the product owners to flesh things out. pm has a responsibility to understand product requirement fully - outside of technical limitations. otherwise they are just a glorified middle man. just let the engineer speak to the product owner. this is why i say don't expect engineer to answer questions that were not asked. why should we take that burden and blame. consider the engineer as someone providing a service, like someone else commented "outsourcing to india" - yes in a way you are outsourcing to an engineer in your team. if a PM doesn't understand a project, then why are they managing it. they should be title "email or communication facilitator" or something like that instead.
- rockemsockem 3y agoWho is the product owner if they aren't on the engineering team or product management team!?
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y agoengineering is a service. like QA. you would never say QA is product owner. right? PM is the product owner by proxy for the stakeholders.
- rockemsockem 3y agoSo you're saying that there should be someone between PM and the customers? That's just way too much indirection IMO. Also engineering has not been "a service" anywhere I've worked and engineering typically has done QA as well, without an independent team. Product owner is whoever is ultimately responsible for what the product will do. Often it's PM, but on a lot of teams it makes sense for it to be engineering, especially if it's a product for other engineers.
- jmholla 3y agoWhat is AC?
- infamouscow 3y agoAcceptance criteria