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> At most that's 1,790 students per year taking the class each year Anyone in the world can take CS50 for credit via Harvard Extension [1], and if you happen t

> At most that's 1,790 students per year taking the class each year Anyone in the world can take CS50 for credit via Harvard Extension [1], and if you happen to be in the Boston area you are welcome to come to campus and attend lectures, sections, office hours, etc (but they also have everything you need fully online). Like other large classes at Harvard (Stat 110, etc), these operate just like the weed-out courses at the big state schools. Unlike the state schools the deadline to drop a course without it showing up on your transcript or affecting your GPA is really, really late in the semester. So it's not uncommon for 50+% of the kids to be gone by the final exam/project. [1] https://cs50.harvard.edu/extension/2023/fall/ https://cs50.harvard.edu/extension/2023/fall/

eesmith 3y ago
The pricing doesn't make sense. Harvard Extension charges $2,040/4 credit course[1]. I estimated this course cost Harvard students $5,000, for low-quality access to educational staff. Does that mean Harvard Extension students get even worse access? Surely paying twice as much in tuition should mean something more than getting to say "I graduated from Harvard." [1] https://extension.harvard.edu/paying-for-school/ https://extension.harvard.edu/paying-for-school/
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  No, they get the same access to the courses they are enrolled in. An extension student doesn’t have access to the full course catalog, and doesn’t live in one of the undergrad houses, doesn’t develop the same network of friends etc. But they do attend the same morning graduation exercises in Harvard Yard and get the same lifetime benefits (if they carry through to graduation, that is).
  - eesmith 3y ago
    > access to the full course catalog That would (to me) only make sense if the extra $3,000 for the CS course subsidizes the other courses. > and doesn’t live in one of the undergrad houses Which is why I only compared tuition, and did not include the housing fee.
    - chefandy 3y ago
      Not all of the classes are the same quality— though many are. Harvard College summer classes are all done through the extension school. I think extension students can actually enroll in the full undergrad catalog once they get to a certain point in their degree program if they're preforming well. Not positive though. However, your degree options are very limited, you don't get access to the same interaction with the big famous names (though you can usually work some magic through side channels for genuine collab interests,) you don't really interact with the Harvard College undergrads, you don't get the same internship opportunities, you can't join the sports teams or go to most undergrad-specific events, you don't live in the Harvard buildings or eat in the Harvard dining halls, your email address is extension-school specific... etc etc etc. Even if there are undergrad specific things you technically can take part in, nobody is going to make sure you know about them. You DO get the same access to the online resources, all of the clubs, and all SEVENTY TWO libraries (some are like office-sized.) Harvard knows how much cachet a Harvard degree has, and with the extension school, they must walk the razor-thin line between marketing that to extension students, and making the Harvard College students feel like ubermensch. You actually get a different degree from the extension school— a "Bachelor of Liberal Arts (ALB) in Extension Studies concentrating in XYZ" rather than the "BA/SB concentrating in XYZ" to differentiate it even more. Lots of extension school students try to push it on their resumes because most employers don't know the difference, and lots of Harvard undergrads get mad about it and feel like that cheapens their degree. In reality, the connections, outlook, exposure, and experiences uniquely available to them in Harvard College are the real secret sauces.
      - eesmith 3y ago
        > Harvard knows how much cachet a Harvard degree has Reading about how crappy their intro CS course it makes me downgrade their cachet. I can't help but wonder if the richer students simply pay for a tutor, rather than depend on the school-provided services.
        Kon-Peki 3y ago
        Harvard isn't known for their CS program. I did CS undergrad at a school ranked quite a bit higher than Harvard (for CS). I think that CS50 would have been quite an improvement on the intro class at my school. But you have to understand, these classes are supposed to be hard. CS requires a huge amount of self-study and a huge amount of independent work. The kids that aren't willing to do that gain nothing by advancing to the second year curriculum. The system isn't perfect - it never will be. But seeing lots of kids at sections and office hours is a good thing. It shows that they are willing to ask for help when they need it, and are willing to put in the hard work to succeed. I'm sure that some of the richest kids pay for private help. But one thing you need to understand about the wealthy is that they are more likely to make use of the services that are available to them. It is very striking to see how many poorer people suffer in silence when help is available, because they don't want to be a burden or are embarrassed to be in need of help. I assure you that no rich person ever feels embarrassed by asking for help. As for Harvard Extension, a lot of people will tell you that it is around 100 years old. But in reality, it is a lot closer to 200 years old. Harvard alum John Lowell Jr left half of his estate to provide educational opportunities to greater Boston. They paid the most accomplished academics they could find to present lectures for free or cheap at night so that people who worked jobs during the day could attend. It wasn't limited to Harvard professors, of course, and it continuously evolved to serve the needs of the day. The trustees at MIT were the first to organize lectures into a real curriculum rather than a set of ad-hoc topics. By the early 1900s it had transformed into an organized group of all of the colleges and universities in the Boston area. Depending on the subject matter you studied, you "graduated" from the school that specialized in that subject even if you took courses at a different school. All those schools dropped out, one by one, until Harvard was the only one left - which shows their commitment to the concept (no entrance exam, inexpensive, targeted at non-traditional students).

eesmith 3y ago

The pricing doesn't make sense. Harvard Extension charges $2,040/4 credit course[1]. I estimated this course cost Harvard students $5,000, for low-quality access to educational staff. Does that mean Harvard Extension students get even worse access? Surely paying twice as much in tuition should mean something more than getting to say "I graduated from Harvard." [1] https://extension.harvard.edu/paying-for-school/ https://extension.harvard.edu/paying-for-school/

Kon-Peki 3y ago
No, they get the same access to the courses they are enrolled in. An extension student doesn’t have access to the full course catalog, and doesn’t live in one of the undergrad houses, doesn’t develop the same network of friends etc. But they do attend the same morning graduation exercises in Harvard Yard and get the same lifetime benefits (if they carry through to graduation, that is).
- eesmith 3y ago
  > access to the full course catalog That would (to me) only make sense if the extra $3,000 for the CS course subsidizes the other courses. > and doesn’t live in one of the undergrad houses Which is why I only compared tuition, and did not include the housing fee.
  - chefandy 3y ago
    Not all of the classes are the same quality— though many are. Harvard College summer classes are all done through the extension school. I think extension students can actually enroll in the full undergrad catalog once they get to a certain point in their degree program if they're preforming well. Not positive though. However, your degree options are very limited, you don't get access to the same interaction with the big famous names (though you can usually work some magic through side channels for genuine collab interests,) you don't really interact with the Harvard College undergrads, you don't get the same internship opportunities, you can't join the sports teams or go to most undergrad-specific events, you don't live in the Harvard buildings or eat in the Harvard dining halls, your email address is extension-school specific... etc etc etc. Even if there are undergrad specific things you technically can take part in, nobody is going to make sure you know about them. You DO get the same access to the online resources, all of the clubs, and all SEVENTY TWO libraries (some are like office-sized.) Harvard knows how much cachet a Harvard degree has, and with the extension school, they must walk the razor-thin line between marketing that to extension students, and making the Harvard College students feel like ubermensch. You actually get a different degree from the extension school— a "Bachelor of Liberal Arts (ALB) in Extension Studies concentrating in XYZ" rather than the "BA/SB concentrating in XYZ" to differentiate it even more. Lots of extension school students try to push it on their resumes because most employers don't know the difference, and lots of Harvard undergrads get mad about it and feel like that cheapens their degree. In reality, the connections, outlook, exposure, and experiences uniquely available to them in Harvard College are the real secret sauces.
    - eesmith 3y ago
      > Harvard knows how much cachet a Harvard degree has Reading about how crappy their intro CS course it makes me downgrade their cachet. I can't help but wonder if the richer students simply pay for a tutor, rather than depend on the school-provided services.
      - Kon-Peki 3y ago
        Harvard isn't known for their CS program. I did CS undergrad at a school ranked quite a bit higher than Harvard (for CS). I think that CS50 would have been quite an improvement on the intro class at my school. But you have to understand, these classes are supposed to be hard. CS requires a huge amount of self-study and a huge amount of independent work. The kids that aren't willing to do that gain nothing by advancing to the second year curriculum. The system isn't perfect - it never will be. But seeing lots of kids at sections and office hours is a good thing. It shows that they are willing to ask for help when they need it, and are willing to put in the hard work to succeed. I'm sure that some of the richest kids pay for private help. But one thing you need to understand about the wealthy is that they are more likely to make use of the services that are available to them. It is very striking to see how many poorer people suffer in silence when help is available, because they don't want to be a burden or are embarrassed to be in need of help. I assure you that no rich person ever feels embarrassed by asking for help. As for Harvard Extension, a lot of people will tell you that it is around 100 years old. But in reality, it is a lot closer to 200 years old. Harvard alum John Lowell Jr left half of his estate to provide educational opportunities to greater Boston. They paid the most accomplished academics they could find to present lectures for free or cheap at night so that people who worked jobs during the day could attend. It wasn't limited to Harvard professors, of course, and it continuously evolved to serve the needs of the day. The trustees at MIT were the first to organize lectures into a real curriculum rather than a set of ad-hoc topics. By the early 1900s it had transformed into an organized group of all of the colleges and universities in the Boston area. Depending on the subject matter you studied, you "graduated" from the school that specialized in that subject even if you took courses at a different school. All those schools dropped out, one by one, until Harvard was the only one left - which shows their commitment to the concept (no entrance exam, inexpensive, targeted at non-traditional students).