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Code requirements for housing are far more strict. One of the reasons you don't regularly see office building conversions is because homes require things like w

Code requirements for housing are far more strict. One of the reasons you don't regularly see office building conversions is because homes require things like windows for each bedroom or at least one bathroom per home. While the bathrooms can be fixed with effort, windows mean a lot of office spaces would have empty cores as only the square footage near the outer edge of the building would be used. (This isn't my area of expertise. I'm leaning on there being someone closer to this topic here on HN to opine, but this is at least how I understood it from real estate developers who noted to me why they're avoiding office space conversions)

zirgs 3y ago
Those empty cores could be repurposed as storage areas though. Those don't require windows.
- joenot443 3y ago
  Imagine the layout of a large office building. Some of them have the same footprint as an entire city block. The "empty cores" make up the majority of the interior of the building itself, it can't all be repurposed as storage areas. I feel like the notion "the govt should turn empty offices into housing!!" comes up on places like reddit _all_ the time, it takes very little explanation to show why it's not that simple.
  - spokeonawheel 3y ago
    ignoring code for a minute, for the most vulnerable, having a roof over their head is a serious challenge, and only getting worse as more and more people get kicked out onto the streets. Additionally, I am suggesting that this would be a government social service. USA is a deplorable example of how to view and treat homeless.
    - jprete 3y ago
      It can be better than the status quo, but there will still be major newspapers running stories about the homeless being warehoused in lightless holes with bad bathroom access and no kitchens.
      - lost_tourist 3y ago
        Lol I lived in a basement with no windows for half of my college education, it was fine. People adapt. Shelter is almost as important as food and sometimes more important, otherwise you freeze to death.
    - joenot443 3y ago
      Which developed country whose population experiences similar rates of homelessness to the US do you think the US should be modeling their policy off of? The UK or NZ I guess?
  - fakedang 3y ago
    If the govt can scoop up all CRE, then wouldn't government also be able to work loopholes around code? An executive order is all it takes tbh. I'm certain a sincere homeless person doesn't give a rats ass about whether his home has a window or not. As for building safety, high rise office buildings tend to be high up wrt safety codes.
Spooky23 3y ago
The real issue is plumbing. You need more plumbing in residential real estate. Many buildings are difficult to retrofit because they use a type of compressed concrete floor that cannot be safely drilled. Cheaper to demo.
- drdec 3y ago
  Right, you demo the existing building and rebuild one that will satisfy the window per bedroom requirement efficiently. I'm sure people reading HN can imagine a multitude of solutions. We just need to reach the tipping point where the demo/rebuild cost is lower than the expected gain.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    Real estate is all about tax schemes. If the market goes as predicted, Congress will update the rules and there will be a demolition rush.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  Can they run the plumbing on the outside of the building?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
WillPostForFood 3y ago
windows mean a lot of office spaces would have empty cores Just change the code.
- eganist 3y ago
  Not only is this a massive fire safety concern (considering why the requirement for two means of egress exists in residential building code), it's also a massive optics concern to stuff unhoused people into what'll effectively be written up by the press as a prison cell. Changing code here is unviable.
  - WillPostForFood 3y ago
    There is no egress from windows in tall buildings. They don't open, it is too high for ladders. So it adds no safety in this context, so change the code. Also, if you need a window for a bedroom to be safe, why not an office? People spend 8 hours in an office without a window. Mitigating fire risk in tall buildings is a serious issue, but you have sprinkler systems, internal stair exits, etc.

zirgs 3y ago

Those empty cores could be repurposed as storage areas though. Those don't require windows.

joenot443 3y ago
Imagine the layout of a large office building. Some of them have the same footprint as an entire city block. The "empty cores" make up the majority of the interior of the building itself, it can't all be repurposed as storage areas. I feel like the notion "the govt should turn empty offices into housing!!" comes up on places like reddit _all_ the time, it takes very little explanation to show why it's not that simple.
- spokeonawheel 3y ago
  ignoring code for a minute, for the most vulnerable, having a roof over their head is a serious challenge, and only getting worse as more and more people get kicked out onto the streets. Additionally, I am suggesting that this would be a government social service. USA is a deplorable example of how to view and treat homeless.
  - jprete 3y ago
    It can be better than the status quo, but there will still be major newspapers running stories about the homeless being warehoused in lightless holes with bad bathroom access and no kitchens.
    - lost_tourist 3y ago
      Lol I lived in a basement with no windows for half of my college education, it was fine. People adapt. Shelter is almost as important as food and sometimes more important, otherwise you freeze to death.
  - joenot443 3y ago
    Which developed country whose population experiences similar rates of homelessness to the US do you think the US should be modeling their policy off of? The UK or NZ I guess?
- fakedang 3y ago
  If the govt can scoop up all CRE, then wouldn't government also be able to work loopholes around code? An executive order is all it takes tbh. I'm certain a sincere homeless person doesn't give a rats ass about whether his home has a window or not. As for building safety, high rise office buildings tend to be high up wrt safety codes.

Spooky23 3y ago

The real issue is plumbing. You need more plumbing in residential real estate. Many buildings are difficult to retrofit because they use a type of compressed concrete floor that cannot be safely drilled. Cheaper to demo.

drdec 3y ago
Right, you demo the existing building and rebuild one that will satisfy the window per bedroom requirement efficiently. I'm sure people reading HN can imagine a multitude of solutions. We just need to reach the tipping point where the demo/rebuild cost is lower than the expected gain.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  Real estate is all about tax schemes. If the market goes as predicted, Congress will update the rules and there will be a demolition rush.
photonbeam 3y ago
Can they run the plumbing on the outside of the building?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

WillPostForFood 3y ago

windows mean a lot of office spaces would have empty cores Just change the code.

eganist 3y ago
Not only is this a massive fire safety concern (considering why the requirement for two means of egress exists in residential building code), it's also a massive optics concern to stuff unhoused people into what'll effectively be written up by the press as a prison cell. Changing code here is unviable.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  There is no egress from windows in tall buildings. They don't open, it is too high for ladders. So it adds no safety in this context, so change the code. Also, if you need a window for a bedroom to be safe, why not an office? People spend 8 hours in an office without a window. Mitigating fire risk in tall buildings is a serious issue, but you have sprinkler systems, internal stair exits, etc.