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> the government holds hundreds of millions of acres of land in trust and it needs to be relinquished How would relinquishing that help, is access to land a re

> the government holds hundreds of millions of acres of land in trust and it needs to be relinquished How would relinquishing that help, is access to land a real issue? You can probably already buy a lot for cheap right now, but it will be far from urban centers and won't be habitable without a ton of investment. Would have zero effect on housing.

etimberg 3y ago
Conversion of office property to residential also requires a lot of capital which seems forgotten by a lot of the folks championing this kind of conversion. It's not as simple as building some interior walls and calling it a day
- baremetal 3y ago
  Having remodeled commercial buildings I can say adding plumbing to a finished commercial building is a nightmare.
  - cudgy 3y ago
    Most major conversions will require gutting out drywall, ceilings, etc back to the main architectural structure, making new electrical and plumbing much easier to accomplish versus a finished space.
    - baremetal 3y ago
      Not if it is a slab. You have to saw cut the slab and run new plumbing and pour back. And if it is a tension slab, you absolutely cannot cut into it.
- RyanAdamas 3y ago
  It is not more costly than having Hoovervilles and desperate people living hand to mouth in a world of rapidly advancing technology which was the promise of this whole societal endeavor to begin with. The governments of this world already subsidize the production costs of corporations to the tune of billions of dollars a year so they can continue to "make profit" from their productive efforts they would otherwise be failing at in spectacular fashion. - Autos - Airlines - Banks - Farming They all require massive injections of liquidity for the purpose of subsidizing poor stewardship. "Costs" is not a feasible excuse for continued economic oppression.
RyanAdamas 3y ago
You mean like 15 minute cities? We don't need classical infrastructure as we once did when considering the reduction in the costs of solar, wind, and in many places accessible geothermal energy, plus septic tanks, water table access, and satellite based internet, we no longer require massive right of way projects to build these places. Initial investment in locality based infrastructure creates the market; expansion through time with connected systems, if so desired, would then be an increased capital cost over time, not an upfront requirement. We can generate competition in building whole new cities, like corporations are attempting to do today, which can help stabilize and reduce the growing costs of rent and housing in major metropolitan areas. It absolutely would have an impact - just not when you construct a fallacious form for it to exist in as a failure by design; which is most of commercial and residential real estate given zoning requirements and the massive middle-man industry surrounding it.
- TigeriusKirk 3y ago
  The point being made is that there is plenty of very cheap land adjacent to the nationally preserved land. The reason it's cheap is that no one wants to develop it.
lost_tourist 3y ago
This is usually a libertarian knee jerk response. For some reason they are jealous that land can be community owned and controlled. Trust me it's a bad idea and results in stuff like in Texas with 97% of the land being owned privately and hoarded with "no trespassing signs" and fences up everywhere

etimberg 3y ago

Conversion of office property to residential also requires a lot of capital which seems forgotten by a lot of the folks championing this kind of conversion. It's not as simple as building some interior walls and calling it a day

baremetal 3y ago
Having remodeled commercial buildings I can say adding plumbing to a finished commercial building is a nightmare.
- cudgy 3y ago
  Most major conversions will require gutting out drywall, ceilings, etc back to the main architectural structure, making new electrical and plumbing much easier to accomplish versus a finished space.
  - baremetal 3y ago
    Not if it is a slab. You have to saw cut the slab and run new plumbing and pour back. And if it is a tension slab, you absolutely cannot cut into it.
RyanAdamas 3y ago
It is not more costly than having Hoovervilles and desperate people living hand to mouth in a world of rapidly advancing technology which was the promise of this whole societal endeavor to begin with. The governments of this world already subsidize the production costs of corporations to the tune of billions of dollars a year so they can continue to "make profit" from their productive efforts they would otherwise be failing at in spectacular fashion. - Autos - Airlines - Banks - Farming They all require massive injections of liquidity for the purpose of subsidizing poor stewardship. "Costs" is not a feasible excuse for continued economic oppression.

RyanAdamas 3y ago

You mean like 15 minute cities? We don't need classical infrastructure as we once did when considering the reduction in the costs of solar, wind, and in many places accessible geothermal energy, plus septic tanks, water table access, and satellite based internet, we no longer require massive right of way projects to build these places. Initial investment in locality based infrastructure creates the market; expansion through time with connected systems, if so desired, would then be an increased capital cost over time, not an upfront requirement. We can generate competition in building whole new cities, like corporations are attempting to do today, which can help stabilize and reduce the growing costs of rent and housing in major metropolitan areas. It absolutely would have an impact - just not when you construct a fallacious form for it to exist in as a failure by design; which is most of commercial and residential real estate given zoning requirements and the massive middle-man industry surrounding it.

TigeriusKirk 3y ago
The point being made is that there is plenty of very cheap land adjacent to the nationally preserved land. The reason it's cheap is that no one wants to develop it.

lost_tourist 3y ago

This is usually a libertarian knee jerk response. For some reason they are jealous that land can be community owned and controlled. Trust me it's a bad idea and results in stuff like in Texas with 97% of the land being owned privately and hoarded with "no trespassing signs" and fences up everywhere